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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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 Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:05 am Post subject: Spider style kung fu... |
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I have heard about it but I have never seen a video or any form of publication that talks about what it is about.
Has anyone experienced this style.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| I had not heard about spider style. |
I hear it being talked about here and there but this style seems to be something a local kung fu master came up with but it never got expanded enough for it to be a style with a rich tradition.
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 497
Location: United Kingdom
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu
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| Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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I will state that the Chinese Arts are not my area of expertise. I practice Tai Chi for exercise. Outside of that my interest in the Chinese Arts tends to start and end with their relation to Karate and Kenjutsu: through Kata and Bladesmithing respectively.
With that said, I have heard the claim that Spider Boxing (Zhizhūquen to give it a Mandarin name, or Kumo Kempō for a Japanese Transliteration) is a so called sub-style of Shéquán (Snake Style) and Tánglángquán (Northern Praying Mantis). However, I have never seen compelling evidence to demonstrate such. There are many snake styles, however, with there being a Northern and Southern Shaolin tradition, and the snake is also present as a form in Taijiquen, Baguagzhang, and Xingyiquen. Furthermore, there are at least six major forms of Northern Praying Mantis I can think of. I would not discount Spider style existing as a form on the basis I just do not know enough about the systems I have heard it might be a part of, but that is presuming there is truth to the claim I have heard. It is just as likely that claim is false, and looking into those two styles would be a false start.
Otherwise, I once read in a book, of dubious quality, on the History of Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu that Spider Boxing is one of the historical sources of Gyokko Ryū Kosshijutsu. It should be said that only Kukishinden-Ryu and Takagi Yoshin-Ryu can be authenticated as historical systems Takamatsu Toshitsuga legitimately knew. Also, that the Shindo Fudo-Ryu taught in the Bujinkan likely came from Hatsumi's studies with Ueno Takashi, and that the Shinden Fudo Ryū Dakentai Jutsu was invented to give Hatsumi a further Soke title. Otherwise, the other six systems are inventions of Takamatsu, based on material plagiarised from the works of Ninpo and Bujutsu researchers Nawa Yumio Masakian and Fujita Seiko. Thus, the claim is patently false. Still, an interesting aside, but sadly the only other claim about Spider Boxing I know of, and perhaps where the rumour of spider boxing began.
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Himokiri Karate
Member of the Month
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 408
Styles: Boxing, Korean Karate
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| Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Wado Heretic wrote: |
I will state that the Chinese Arts are not my area of expertise. I practice Tai Chi for exercise. Outside of that my interest in the Chinese Arts tends to start and end with their relation to Karate and Kenjutsu: through Kata and Bladesmithing respectively.
With that said, I have heard the claim that Spider Boxing (Zhizhūquen to give it a Mandarin name, or Kumo Kempō for a Japanese Transliteration) is a so called sub-style of Shéquán (Snake Style) and Tánglángquán (Northern Praying Mantis). However, I have never seen compelling evidence to demonstrate such. There are many snake styles, however, with there being a Northern and Southern Shaolin tradition, and the snake is also present as a form in Taijiquen, Baguagzhang, and Xingyiquen. Furthermore, there are at least six major forms of Northern Praying Mantis I can think of. I would not discount Spider style existing as a form on the basis I just do not know enough about the systems I have heard it might be a part of, but that is presuming there is truth to the claim I have heard. It is just as likely that claim is false, and looking into those two styles would be a false start.
Otherwise, I once read in a book, of dubious quality, on the History of Bujinkan Ninpo Taijutsu that Spider Boxing is one of the historical sources of Gyokko Ryū Kosshijutsu. It should be said that only Kukishinden-Ryu and Takagi Yoshin-Ryu can be authenticated as historical systems Takamatsu Toshitsuga legitimately knew. Also, that the Shindo Fudo-Ryu taught in the Bujinkan likely came from Hatsumi's studies with Ueno Takashi, and that the Shinden Fudo Ryū Dakentai Jutsu was invented to give Hatsumi a further Soke title. Otherwise, the other six systems are inventions of Takamatsu, based on material plagiarised from the works of Ninpo and Bujutsu researchers Nawa Yumio Masakian and Fujita Seiko. Thus, the claim is patently false. Still, an interesting aside, but sadly the only other claim about Spider Boxing I know of, and perhaps where the rumour of spider boxing began. |
Thank you for the reply and man I have no real knowledge of the ninjutsu culture. I just heard it being mentioned by folks posting online about it.
Also an Update:
So ever since I made this thread I asked around different places that are kung fu historians. The talk is that its a local folklore style. This means that spider style may have existed among few kung fu masters who claimed it as a personal style. But that, there was never actually a cultural kung fu style that was based on spider only local kung fu folks who adopted the idea of spider characteristic within their style.
This meant that one spider kung fu master had a different spider style than another spider style kung fu master. Its more like a personal interpretation as oppose to a tradition.
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