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Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 823
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will do what you are taught.
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If you don't want to stand behind our troops, please..feel free to stand in front of them.

Student since January 1975---4th Dan, retired due to non-martial arts related injuries.
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maisweh wrote:
Because I've been in fights. So have you ever seen a crescent kick to disarm a gun or knife wielding opponent? i havent. have you ever seen a forearm block taught to defend a baseball bat? this is some of the junk being taught as self defense.

No; I don't teach any of those things. Furthermore, I don't see how "foolish technique" enters into an argument about valid vs. invalid technique in competition. Nobody has so much as mentioned poor teaching. My point was specifically targeted at the difference between "Keep your guard high, because your next competition is judged by people who think head shots are important" versus "When he attacks, turn around so he hits you in the back and gets fouled, because that is a rule in this particular venue. We will now spend the next two weeks drilling how to turn around faster."
Quote:
Have I ever seen someone teach to turn their back so they won't get hit? No. Because in 90% of leagues you can hit to the back of the head unless they're on the ground.

The example I gave was from one of the exceptions to that rule, which offered a particularly visible example.
Quote:
Know what most, if not all sport karate schools teach? Front leg side kicks, front leg round kicks, blitzing which is just a back first reverse punch combo, and defensive side kicks. Also spin kicks. I have never seen or even heard of a school teaching to turn their back to avoid fighting, much less drilling it. If you have seen that, I dread what they will do in a real altercation

Which was my point exactly. All of the techniques you listed above are valid technique, which I considered reasonable. However, I also recognize that sport rules seem to encourage a lot of people to read the rules in unusual ways which give them ideas to perform invalid technique and try to make it into core strategy.

Another example I recall hearing about was a TKD stylist who was taught to leave their hands by their sides because of the specific interactions of the rules as far as blocking - or lack thereof. There were no points, offensive or defensive, in keeping a guard up; ergo, the coach made sure that he was trained to "leave your hands by your side to 'conserve energy'".
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AdamKralic
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 313
Location: Chicagoland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only been to about 10 tournaments...and only saw maybe 100 fighters in that time...but I've never seen anyone with their guard completely down.

Many have a modified boxing guard stance. The better, quicker fighters have a guard more akin to the Tae Kwon Do guard. (front guard is extended almost straight from body ready to catch kicks or blitz with)

Frontside roundkick is the #1 kick. That is because it is easy to throw...I would not call it the most effective in sport karate. The most effective kick imo is the sidekick both in offense and in defense. Few are good enough at the axe kick to use it properly but those that do get results.

The most perhaps un-fight like technique that is popular is the superman blitz. The counter to this however is very fight like. D side kick both with a fade or a angle fade. I prefer the angle fade as if the kick has bad timing...atleast you have attempted to put an awkward angle to your opponent's attack. Another counter to the superman blitz is a fast raising of the guard to your forehead...with a underneath reverse punch. I've seen this simple counter double over the "superman" in pain. Ditto with a great d side. The "superman" has to be lightning quick and opportunistic.

The defender has to have super quick reflexes to counter.
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maisweh
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Jan 2013
Posts: 83


PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive seen the tkd guard down and flutter kick thing, to block their ribs. they also dont really punch because unless its a "perfect" punch with perfect form, it doesnt count as a point. i had one of mine compete in one of their tournaments, clinch up and throw hook punches to the ribs and made the kid give up even with the chest pad on... but didnt get a single point
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skullsplitter
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 165

Styles: shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maisweh wrote:
ive seen the tkd guard down and flutter kick thing, to block their ribs. they also dont really punch because unless its a "perfect" punch with perfect form, it doesnt count as a point. i had one of mine compete in one of their tournaments, clinch up and throw hook punches to the ribs and made the kid give up even with the chest pad on... but didnt get a single point


I've seen it too, but in our school. A blackbelt kid joined our school after leaving his tkd school. His sparring technique was noting but hands down and a couple of high sweeping kicks. Our underbelts ate him alive. He never really overcame the "guard down" technique.
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6094
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit that I'm somewhat guilty of doing the things you guys are talking about. But I train, at the minute anyway, for sport TKD. At higher levels of competition you'd be a fool to walk onto the mat without having trained or at least considered some of these things. You'd lose to any competent fighter. These people are athletes and sportsmen and you can bet that they'll be using the rules set to their advantage.

At that level it's less about martial art and more about playing a game. Would I recommend you throw a 360 roundhouse in a street confrontation? No. But in tournament sparring, if you can pull it off, something like that will win you a match. As long as you recognise that you're crossing the boundary into sport and away from martial art I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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OkamiBlack
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Aug 2017
Posts: 5


PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Curious of your thoughts: Reply with quote

https://www.karateforums.com/existing-in-a-karate-club-when-i-m-opposed-to-sports-karate-vt50938.html
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Andebecouble1953
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 20 Oct 2018
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sport and budo are opposites? Anyone got a hanky for the newbie?
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