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Himokiri Karate
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 215


PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:51 pm    Post subject: Starting my own Karate style...I need help! Reply with quote

Alright I am going for it, my style is going to be my username. The principle of it is in my signature and I believe it with all my heart, with everything that I am that the principle of this style is solid. From the 72 shaolin skills, this styles moves can be trained and nurtured. Nothing outlandish, its physical and focus is on conditioning of wrist, fingers and forearms.

However I need help as to how I can be not successful but also legitimate in my presentation. For example, should I fight in a karate tournament? Do I need to prove the style in a specific way?
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Bulltahr
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 653
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Above my paygrade mate, I would say that to be legitimate it is in your own heart and mind, just ask yourself what your motivation is to start a new style.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14819
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the definitive answer to your question because I've never created a Martial Arts style; that I can't speak about with any authority whatsoever.

My skill set along these lines is on the Administration side, having been blessed to own/operate my own dojo ever since 1977, and to have been in several Executive positions with the now defunct SKKA ever since 1989, as part of its Hierarchy, and up until December 31, 2018, midnight.

In your regards, I would strongly suggest that your newly created MA style must be effective across the board. Anything less than effectiveness will destroy its acceptance, IF acceptance is what you're needing from others, MAists as well as non-MAists.

Teach that which is in our heart, and never let any criticism persuade you one way or another, because if you do, the floor will eat you up alive without any mercy whatsoever.

Test it or don't test it; that's up to you. Effectiveness can be embraced, but it can be a cold embrace. Whereas, ineffectiveness can't be embraced and/or hidden, especially from the trained eye. A new MA style is akin to a new song; it's either great or it's not. MA styles only have meaningful context within that group, however, to transition outside of that group are oftentimes relegated to a inferior role.

If your new MA style is to become effective, you must be effective, and callous to outside influences; nonetheless, imho, any MA style is only effective as that practitioner.

Proof is on the floor!!



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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28085
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting my own Karate style...I need help! Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:
Alright I am going for it, my style is going to be my username. The principle of it is in my signature and I believe it with all my heart, with everything that I am that the principle of this style is solid. From the 72 shaolin skills, this styles moves can be trained and nurtured. Nothing outlandish, its physical and focus is on conditioning of wrist, fingers and forearms.

However I need help as to how I can be not successful but also legitimate in my presentation. For example, should I fight in a karate tournament? Do I need to prove the style in a specific way?


I would ask these questions:

1. What is your prior training experience? Years, rank, accomplishments, etc.

2. What is your reason for starting your "style," what is it rooted or grounded in (principles, goals, etc). Why should I, as a prospective student, give up what I do and follow you? Or, as a new student, what do you offer that is not readily available from someone who is already established in one of the already established and trusted styles?

3. What will the curriculum consist of? Forms? If so, from what style are you taking them? Or are you creating your own? If this is the case, why, and what is the reason for creating new forms? Do they have applications, or are they just a series of moves strung together for another reason?

4. Is there a self-defense base, and will it be a regular part of the training?

5. Do you have some sort of creed, manifesto, or layout of goals and objectives that are too be accomplished through the training of your style? What can I expect out of training?

I'm sure I can think of some more if I mull it over for a while, but these are a good start, I think. Can you answer each of these questions in regards to creating your new style?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14819
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Starting my own Karate style...I need help! Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Himokiri Karate wrote:
Alright I am going for it, my style is going to be my username. The principle of it is in my signature and I believe it with all my heart, with everything that I am that the principle of this style is solid. From the 72 shaolin skills, this styles moves can be trained and nurtured. Nothing outlandish, its physical and focus is on conditioning of wrist, fingers and forearms.

However I need help as to how I can be not successful but also legitimate in my presentation. For example, should I fight in a karate tournament? Do I need to prove the style in a specific way?


I would ask these questions:

1. What is your prior training experience? Years, rank, accomplishments, etc.

2. What is your reason for starting your "style," what is it rooted or grounded in (principles, goals, etc). Why should I, as a prospective student, give up what I do and follow you? Or, as a new student, what do you offer that is not readily available from someone who is already established in one of the already established and trusted styles?

3. What will the curriculum consist of? Forms? If so, from what style are you taking them? Or are you creating your own? If this is the case, why, and what is the reason for creating new forms? Do they have applications, or are they just a series of moves strung together for another reason?

4. Is there a self-defense base, and will it be a regular part of the training?

5. Do you have some sort of creed, manifesto, or layout of goals and objectives that are too be accomplished through the training of your style? What can I expect out of training?

I'm sure I can think of some more if I mull it over for a while, but these are a good start, I think. Can you answer each of these questions in regards to creating your new style?

Solid post, Brian!!



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Nevinyrral
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 267
Location: Poland
Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Starting my own Karate style...I need help! Reply with quote

Himokiri Karate wrote:

However I need help as to how I can be not successful but also legitimate in my presentation. For example, should I fight in a karate tournament? Do I need to prove the style in a specific way?


This is always a good idea, although you would need to try diffrent formats like full light and semi contact, kata competitions. Also compete not only in karate tournaments but for example mma.

I would have few questions for you though:

1. Do you have your own dojo and students.
2. Are those students ready and willing to continue training after you establish new style.
3. What would be a governing body for you.
4. Something more personal like your age and where you live.

Anyways good luck.


PS
Isnt himokiri karate used in Grappler Baki
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14819
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The creation, and the founding of any new MA always seems to bring out the worse suspicions about and for for whatever reasons. It's as though this creative juice can only be birthed by those MAists from yesterday, and those MAists of modern MA don't have the given rights to creation.

If one wants to create some new MA style, then perhaps that MAist should just create no matter what anybody might or might not think...but...one better be prepared for the onslaught of contradictions that that type of storm will brew.

MAists are a very suspicious bunch!!



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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2467
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've already had some good responses to consider. I would add to that the recommendation that you don't name it after something that exists in fictional media, and if you intend for the art to be taken seriously as a fighting or self defense art, then you need to prove that it works, somehow. Competition is the most popular way to do that, but you would also need to do it in a competition format that has credibility in the type of martial art you are trying to build (eg. point fighting competitions will not give you any credibility as a self defense art).
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Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
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Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28085
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am contradicted when it comes to the idea of proving a style in competition. That can be a good way to get exposure, but most competitions are about skill and physical talent, especially at the higher levels. A really physically gifted athlete will tend to excel in competition, regardless of what style he or she came out of. There was a lot of talk Shotokan when Lyoto Machida was big in MMA, but his success in MMA probably had more to do with him being an incredible athlete than a demonstration of how good Shotokan is in MMA.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2467
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
I am contradicted when it comes to the idea of proving a style in competition. That can be a good way to get exposure, but most competitions are about skill and physical talent, especially at the higher levels. A really physically gifted athlete will tend to excel in competition, regardless of what style he or she came out of. There was a lot of talk Shotokan when Lyoto Machida was big in MMA, but his success in MMA probably had more to do with him being an incredible athlete than a demonstration of how good Shotokan is in MMA.


I absolutely agree. Plus, you can be an excellent instructor without being terribly skilled at applying things under pressure, yourself, or having a competition record. Unfortunately, competitive success is still the majority of people's method of measuring the effectiveness of a martial art, for better or worse.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
Karate Obsession | Arizona Practical Karate
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