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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14618
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Steel Toes Reply with quote

madtanker wrote:
Drew wrote:
So someone gave me a pair of steel toed shoes the other day. They hurt my feet, so I can't wear them, but I was playing around with some toe kicks while wearing them, something that isn't safe in any of my other shoes. Just the fact that the shoe made toe kicks practical, combined with the extra weight added to any kick makes me want to get a decent pair.

My questions are: 1)Do any of you wear steel toed shoes/boots?

2) Do you do it for self defense purposes or work related purposes?

3) My favorite kick with them on is a leading leg front snap kick to the shin, do you have any favorites?

4) Could any of you recommend any comfortable steel toed foot wear?


Just a word of warning, steel toed boots are considered a DEADLY WEAPON in some jurisdictions. I know personally of a man who went to jail because he was involved with 2 assailants, and they were unarmed. He kicked one in the temple, and if I remember correctly, he got 8-life for manslaughter... and this was in defensive mode. PS he worked construction in addition to being in the martial arts...
Be careful in using things like this, they may get you in more trouble than they are worth...

Good advise and solid post...thank you!!


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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe there is a specific list of deadly weapons. The court and jury has to make a judgement call on it.
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 2010 Criminal Code of Canada, a weapon is defined at §2 as:

"Weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm."


So in Canada, steel toed boots CAN NOT be considered as a weapon as it was not designed as such.
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

darksoul wrote:
In the 2010 Criminal Code of Canada, a weapon is defined at §2 as:

"Weapon means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use (a) in causing death or injury to any person, or (b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a firearm."


So in Canada, steel toed boots CAN NOT be considered as a weapon as it was not designed as such.



It could be intended for use in causing injury or for the purpose of threatening though. Example: Saying "I'm going to stop your face in with my steel toed boots" is a threat/intimidation with steel toed boots. The threat/intimidation has just turned them into a deadly weapon. If you then use them to cause death or injury, you've done so with a deadly weapon.

Almost anything could fit that bill, although I suppose the technical exclusion for the boots would be if you kicked or stomped someone and did not purposefully use the boots for that purpose. (i.e. you would've kicked them barefoot, but just so happened to be wearing steel toed shoes/boots)
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darksoul
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 19 Jul 2012
Posts: 548
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Styles: Shaolin Kempo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liver Punch wrote:

It could be intended for use in causing injury or for the purpose of threatening though. Example: Saying "I'm going to stop your face in with my steel toed boots" is a threat/intimidation with steel toed boots. The threat/intimidation has just turned them into a deadly weapon. If you then use them to cause death or injury, you've done so with a deadly weapon.

Almost anything could fit that bill, although I suppose the technical exclusion for the boots would be if you kicked or stomped someone and did not purposefully use the boots for that purpose. (i.e. you would've kicked them barefoot, but just so happened to be wearing steel toed shoes/boots)


Right, but it's not designed and intended as a weapon, thus could not be used as such in a Canadian court.
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Liver Punch
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 417
Location: Snake Mountain
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Pro Wrestling, Gun-Fu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darksoul wrote:
Liver Punch wrote:

It could be intended for use in causing injury or for the purpose of threatening though. Example: Saying "I'm going to stop your face in with my steel toed boots" is a threat/intimidation with steel toed boots. The threat/intimidation has just turned them into a deadly weapon. If you then use them to cause death or injury, you've done so with a deadly weapon.

Almost anything could fit that bill, although I suppose the technical exclusion for the boots would be if you kicked or stomped someone and did not purposefully use the boots for that purpose. (i.e. you would've kicked them barefoot, but just so happened to be wearing steel toed shoes/boots)


Right, but it's not designed and intended as a weapon, thus could not be used as such in a Canadian court.


If it said not designed or inded by the manufacturer, I'd be with you 100%. But if I were in a court room (and I certainly don't know the ins and outs of how these things go in Canada) arguing against someone who used them, my argument would be that you intended to use them as a weapon. I'd say that because you intended to use them as a weapon, their inded use was at that time to be a weapon. The law states that it must be designed or intended to be used as a weapon - not and...and there's a whole world of difference there.

A quick google search turned up instances of people in Canada being charged with assault with a deadly weapon where that weapon was a car - certainly not its intended purpose.

I'm not saying that everyday items should be consitered deadly weapons on a whim, because I think that w e agree they shouldn't. I would say, however, that once the police and courts are involved, common sense and intent of the law don't always count for much...if they want to throw the book at you, they'll do it at whatever angle they can.

Of course the best way to avoid this is to not assault anyone period. Defense with a deadly weapon is generally more acceptable than assault with one.
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Drew
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 169

Styles: Submission Wrestling, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info everyone, I hadn't realized there were any new posts on this topic, my email doesn't seem to be working

Thanks for bringing up the legality issue, I hadn't considered that.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412


PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for steel toe cap boots in Canada. During the winter months in cold regions steel toe cap boots will freeze your toes off. In the summer months they are great for training for the weight aspect but they can also weaken ankles due to over supporting them. In the 1970's steel toe cap boots 'Doctor Martins' was standard street wear for street gangs and football hooligans. At that time it was not advisable to shown the steel or you could be charged with carrying on your feet a dangerous weapon. As a martial artist. steel toe cap boots are not necessary, all types of sports shoes or regular walking shoes have sufficient: toe, side and heal strength to protect feet while kicking. However being toe stopped upon will be your weak spot.
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