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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1710

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stretching and getting more flexibility is not so much to eliminate risks of injuries, but to make sure one can comfortably move in the maximum range of motion. Flexibility is an important factor in developing speed, power and precision in techniques and movement.
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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 120
Location: NJ
Styles: JKD, TSD, MMA

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A long time ago a master I knew said "your flexibility is your youth". As we age, we lose flexibility unless we stretch, maintain range of motion.
If your style requires kicking much above waist level, stretching is a must.
If you're into grappling, joint locks, then flexibility is defensive, too- it doesn't hurt as much or as quickly.

Strength training is great, especially for judo, wrestling, jujitsu, but it's not either/or with flexibility. It prevents injury differently, by developing smaller muscles (like rotator cuff) and your core, so they are not strained when used dynamically.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think simply moving is stretching enough. As in moving through our full range of movement, frequently. This in in contrast to my idea of stretching. Stretching implies damaging. If I stretch the neck of my T shirt, that T shirt is ruined. The fibres are damaged. Same happens in muscles. Except of course muscles can usually heal. Although when they did they often lay down scar tissue which is considerably less flexible than the original muscle tissue.

Strong muscles, used in their full range, will maintain their range with reduced risk of injury.

The tai chi folks move a lot. But they never really 'stretch'. They move a lot, throughout the whole of their natural range, and over time, that range becomes quite incredible. At my tai chi class there are elderly folk that can move considerably better than many of the senior grade youths in our TSD class. Yet the former never do 'stretches' while the latter really work hard in that respect.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14298
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is stretching overrated?? I don't know, is breathing overrated??

I believe that anything that helps one body can't be overrated, I suppose, but I'm not a medical doctor.




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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard some expert martial artists say that they do very little to no stretching outside of their training. The thought behind their methods (or lack of) is that one does not need to push themselves beyond what is natural, and that their flexibility is maintained through practicing techniques (and stances!!) I don't think this doesn't mean that these folks did not stretch during the early parts of their time as students, and that no one should stretch.

Personally, I do stretch, and I try to do so regularly. I do not think I'll ever be able to do the splits, nor do I think I'll ever need to.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apart from my own experience and observations, it seems I'm not the only one to consider this.

Here's some actual science.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/stretching.php

Key points, stretching doesn't change muscle length. I can believe that in the case of adults, but kids that are still growing might have a chance to prevent muscles becoming tight. I did the know.

Much of flexibility is neurological. Training the brain to not tense the muscles to prevent over stretching prematurely.

I can very much believe this one. If we use our comfortable full range of movement regularly, we can train the brain to allow the free use of that range. Gradually the brain learns that the safe range is greater than was previously benchmarked, so gradually the brain allows a little bit more until it gets to the actual real limit.

If stretching for flexibility was real, then everyone who practiced would be able to achieve the splits. Some train for years and years and never achieve the splits. Why? Because they physically can't. Their muscles have not grown longer or more elastic. They're about the same as they've always been. But now their brain and nervous system has learned the safe limit.
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LastKing
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 07 May 2015
Posts: 69


PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Stretching - is it overrated? Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
I know a number of ex military people from all sections of the military. They all have two things in common that I think are relevant to our civilian martial arts. They are all tough as hell and very combat worthy not only with weapons but also unarmed. And they don't specifically stretch. They keep fit by running. They stay strong by weight training. They do endurance activities. And they hit bags. But they don't spend a lot of time with stretches. Yet they could kick most civilian butts without drawing a sweat.



Not stretching specific, but kind of fits in with what you say about your military friends. Watch out though, it's somewhat profanity heavy,

https://youtu.be/UUCNh6mzXGA
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Stretching - is it overrated? Reply with quote

LastKing wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
I know a number of ex military people from all sections of the military. They all have two things in common that I think are relevant to our civilian martial arts. They are all tough as hell and very combat worthy not only with weapons but also unarmed. And they don't specifically stretch. They keep fit by running. They stay strong by weight training. They do endurance activities. And they hit bags. But they don't spend a lot of time with stretches. Yet they could kick most civilian butts without drawing a sweat.



Not stretching specific, but kind of fits in with what you say about your military friends. Watch out though, it's somewhat profanity heavy,

https://youtu.be/UUCNh6mzXGA


Exactly. Good find. Makes a lot of sense.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2132


PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endurance, practice improving it as much as possible even if you might finish a fight in seconds.

Courage, test it often, you might never need to have any but it will certainty give a boost to your confidence if needed.

Skill, develop it as in as many ways as possible till it becomes second nature, even if you never use it.

Flexibility, is your ally combined with strength improves your range of motion and power, decreases the risk of injury, pliability improves offensive and defensive manuvers.

Flexibility be it physically or mentally, military or not, helps with adaptability, something that strategically is very beneficial to have than not, unarmed or not.

Flexibility routines combined with massage is the antidote to short tightened muscles that without, eventually impedes performance and decreases range of motion that is very beneficial to being a martial artist.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14298
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is pain overrated?? If one doesn't stretch correctly, and often, pain will quickly introduce itself quite unceremoniously. The older I get, the longer I take in my stretching routine so that pain is minimized to the smallest degree, and hopefully none at all.



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