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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:42 pm    Post subject: Systema as a Martial Art? Reply with quote

Is Systema a Martial Art or is it a military methodology?
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe its a Martial Art, although with a mainly military focus.
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sensei8
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a link to Merriam-Websters definition of "Martial Arts"...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial%20art

Through the acceptable definition of "Martial Arts", I, too, would have to believe that Systema is a MA, yet, with a strong emphasis in military combat methodology/ideology. Couldn't one also argue that military combat is a MA as well, by its acceptable definition??

Only thing I disagree with dictionaries definition on the "Martial Arts" is when they call the MA, like Karate/Judo, a sport, because to me, my Karate-do isn't a sport. But that discussion is for another time!



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Wado Heretic
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can generally break down martial arts as a term to four sub-segments:

Combat Sports: The emphasis is successful participation in a sport based on that particular style of combat, for example boxing or wrestling.

Combatives: Military programs designed to be used on the battlefield, where the technical repertoire is built around efficacy in killing and self-preservation. Marine Combatives, Lerdrit, and Krav Maga would all be examples of this.

Self-Defence Systems: Systems designed specifically for civilian self-defence, or combat within the civilian realm. An example would be the SPEAR system, or any number of reality-based systems.

Cultural artefacts: These are those disciplines which have their origins in the significant past, and are as much a cultural tradition as a method of combat, and often include ways of using now out-dated and obsolete weapons. Examples would be Karate, Quan Fa, Pencak Silat, or Koryu Bujutsu Schools.

All the above, however, are some form of martial art; they ground themselves in combat theory, but refine it into a means of study and discipline. Some edge closer to the martial such as combatives and Self-defence systems as lives depend on them, with others closer to the art side such as combat sports where it is done for the love of competition.

With that said; there are only so many ways to move the human body, and there is a lot of cross-overs between all of the above. For example; there are karateka whom take their skills into the world of sport, where as there are others who focus on kata application, and even more who just like to dig deep into the historical practices.

I would say Systema started as a combatives system, but has evolved into more of a cultural artefact or a self-defence system. It has now fallen out of the world of military use, if they ever used it, and is now more favoured by police and security officers, and hobbyists. I question its claims about its military history due to the existence of Combat SOMBO or Commando SOMBO, which is well documented as the martial art of choice of Russian forces, where as Systema has little documented evidence.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a physiology aspect to Systema that matches the body mechanic aspects equally and this could be the answer to how this methodology would benefit civilian self defence needs.

As civilians self defense wouldn't need the Systema part, that use alot of ground level acrobatics that are not easy to master and wouldn't make much sense to learn unless constantly in a military zone.
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Combat sambo life
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Systema is the last thing you learn in combat sambo, it has been separated into two different martial arts for reasons I am unsure of. Probably as a money making gimic, in order to properly learn systema though one must first learn how the body works in close combat.
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sensei8
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combat sambo life wrote:
Systema is the last thing you learn in combat sambo, it has been separated into two different martial arts for reasons I am unsure of. Probably as a money making gimic, in order to properly learn systema though one must first learn how the body works in close combat.

Solid post!!

Welcome to KF, Combat sambo life; glad that you're here!!



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Spartacus Maximus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Systema is most certainly a martial art. It is defined as such by nearly all the prominent instructors and practicionners. It also has most of the traits which indentify it as one.

Systema originated as a method of individual defense. It has its own methods of training and its techniques are organized into a progressive order. It also follows its predetermined strategies for practical application. Like all other martial arts there are both solo excercises and partner drills.
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Combat sambo life
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Joined: 12 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Combat sambo life wrote:
Systema is the last thing you learn in combat sambo, it has been separated into two different martial arts for reasons I am unsure of. Probably as a money making gimic, in order to properly learn systema though one must first learn how the body works in close combat.

Solid post!!

Welcome to KF, Combat sambo life; glad that you're here!!



Thank you, I was just looking for a place to communicate with other martial artists. What system do you train?
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sensei8
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Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Combat sambo life wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
Combat sambo life wrote:
Systema is the last thing you learn in combat sambo, it has been separated into two different martial arts for reasons I am unsure of. Probably as a money making gimic, in order to properly learn systema though one must first learn how the body works in close combat.

Solid post!!

Welcome to KF, Combat sambo life; glad that you're here!!



Thank you, I was just looking for a place to communicate with other martial artists. What system do you train?

Shindokan Saitou-ryu; it's an Okinawan style that's Shuri-te and Okinawa-te based; 85% hands and 15% feet!!



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