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ninjanurse
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Taekwondo Won Reply with quote

Has anyone heard of this organization? www.ustw.org/

Or this? www.tkdwon.kr/eng/

Heard this term ("taekwondowon") for the first time today and am curious. Thanks!



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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of it, either. Looks like just another organization trying to get into the mix. Not sure how many more we need in TKD.
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Harkon72
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, I've made no secret of how I feel about Teakwondo. It's a mystery to me. But that aside, the web site looks like any other big business martial art co-operation. If I saw that I would run a mile. For a start, the history they claim is utter rubbish. My gut feeling is that they have an agenda here, a political one at that. And this is what astounds me, how can you have 6 grandmasters in one organisation? It's bonkers! If a style has a grandmaster at all, I would think that you would have only one.
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Spartacus Maximus
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 grandmasters in a single organization sounds like a lot of nonsense to me as well. I have a feeling that the title of grandmaster seems to be a more common and loose notion in taekwondo, but this sounds ridiculous. I have never ever heard of any martial arts associations having more that one "Grand Master". Even obvious Mc dojo schools. In legitimate serious organization usually the "Grand Master" is the inheritor of the organization and at least 75years old. Furthermore Grand Master is an honrific title, not a rank or a term by which students would address said Grand Master. How many companies or businesses have more than one person as President/CEO?
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Harkon72
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a karate dojo in a local town, I asked the sensei; "Who grades you?" "Kyoshi" she said pointing to a picture of a very portly gentleman in a shell suit. I walked out, she needs to realise what "Kyoshi" means.
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truejim
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Taekwondo Won Reply with quote

This may be an ignorant question, but heck, that's how we get smarter...

Looking at the USTW website, it appears to me that what they're trying to do is promote pre-ITF style taekwondo in the U.S. As I understand it, many of the leaders of the original kwans in Korea emigrated to the U.S. even before ITF-style taekwondo was defined. My interpretation of this website is that they're using the phrase "traditional taekwondo" to refer to pre-ITF style.

If I'm right, then these many grandmasters would presumably be leaders of their respective U.S. schools that derived from early kwans. Like, if there are six grandmasters in this organization, maybe what this USTF organization represents is six pre-ITF U.S. schools coming together decades later to establish their own organization.

To my knowledge, there is no other pre-ITF style federation in the U.S. (though there are many pre-ITF schools). Does anybody know of any federations/associations in the U.S. that focus on pre-ITF style taekwondo? If so, then it seems to me this organization serves a useful (and interesting) niche.
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IcemanSK
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Taekwondowon was just opened last year about 3 hours South of Seoul. It is (at this point) poised to be an extension of Kukkiwon and the new Mecca for Kukki-TKD. I think it is planned that it will become the new Kukkiwon. It's quite a large sprawling campus in the middle of nowhere, from what I understand. The Kukkiwon in Seoul is a small building (for the numbers of people who visit each year). The TKDwon can accommodate the visitors. I don't know if this is a factor, but Kukkiwon is also in the Gangnam section of Seoul (think Gangnam Style = wealthy "Rodeo Drive type" neighborhood). Perhaps selling that property is a consideration.

I'm speculating a great deal here, but it seems to be pointing in this direction.

Also, the "US TKD won" is not an official part of the Korean TKD won, nor a major organization.
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truejim
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, you can find the Taekwondowon campus in Korea on Google Maps. Just search on this:

1482 Museol-ro, Seolcheon-myeon, Muju, Jeollabuk-do

and select the satellite view to see the campus. The round tritaegeuk in the middle of the satellite image is (I believe) the main arena.
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DWx
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
Now, I've made no secret of how I feel about Teakwondo. It's a mystery to me. But that aside, the web site looks like any other big business martial art co-operation. If I saw that I would run a mile. For a start, the history they claim is utter rubbish. My gut feeling is that they have an agenda here, a political one at that. And this is what astounds me, how can you have 6 grandmasters in one organisation? It's bonkers! If a style has a grandmaster at all, I would think that you would have only one.

What's wrong with the history? Nothing inaccurate to my knowledge here: http://www.ustw.org/history_TKD.html


Spartacus Maximus wrote:
6 grandmasters in a single organization sounds like a lot of nonsense to me as well. I have a feeling that the title of grandmaster seems to be a more common and loose notion in taekwondo, but this sounds ridiculous. I have never ever heard of any martial arts associations having more that one "Grand Master". Even obvious Mc dojo schools. In legitimate serious organization usually the "Grand Master" is the inheritor of the organization and at least 75years old. Furthermore Grand Master is an honrific title, not a rank or a term by which students would address said Grand Master. How many companies or businesses have more than one person as President/CEO?

The term probably doesn't confer exactly the same meaning as it does in Karate. In TKD it is not necessarily the head of the organization or the style but a title granted to any 9th dan. You have to remember that Taekwondo is a very large and widely practiced martial art and just as Karate contains many sub-divisions (Shotokan, Goju-, Wado-Ryu etc.) so does Taekwondo. As a consequence we have many masters and grandmasters.
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Harkon72
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with it? It is well known that Taekwondo as it is today, and that's what they are teaching, is derived from Okinawan Karate as taught by the Japanese during their occupation of Korea. The evidence is in the forms, they are derivatives from the same root, whatever you want to call them. Tang Soo Do is a version of Shotokan Karate, they admit this themselves. And in my opinion, and this is not exclusive to the Koreans, they have made a poor replica. The bias towards making it a sport has destroyed it as a martial art. Paradoxically it is not "Korean Karate" as some claim but a shadow of what once inspired it. I have only met one Grandmaster in my life; Soke Hatsumi. Rank in its self does not qualify anyone for that title; even Yoda was content with the title "Master".
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