Teaching Karate at MMA gyms...

Himokiri Karate · Member of the Month

Has anyone done this?

No judgement, just wondering if anyone has been contacted by MMA gyms to teach them karate for short term basis or part time to help them see a different look than the typical Moo Thai style that is abundant in mma gyms.

I am not sure if MMA is still as popular as it was in the 2000s but I think that there are more diverse styles because of some MMA outliers who use karate, kung fu or even judo as oppose to the classical MMA styles out there.

Of course the dojos and MMA gyms may not always see eye to eye because of their different cultural presentation which presents MMA in a more spicy way while karate is more traditional in how it presents itself.
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sensei8 · KF Sensei

Personally, I've not entertained the notion that the OP suggests. Not for any particular reason, perhaps because Shindokan has a ton or two of grappling in its veins.

Well noted is the eye to eye comment because one can't serve two masters. However, if the CI is mature, Karate and MMA teachings CAN get along with one another on the floor, or at least examine the possibilities of learning from each other, even if it's a tad bit.

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Zaine · Black Belt

My original CI had a school that was in an MMA gym. We were a combat oriented school, so we fit in with the crowd more than maybe some others, but it was fine. We got questions every now and then.
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Wastelander · KF Sensei

I haven't taught at an MMA gym on any regular basis, but I did recently teach a session for a university MMA club, which went great. I do think that practical, classical karate fits quite well into MMA training.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society

nine1whiskey · White Belt

Wastelander · KF Sensei

I found that the MMA club at ASU had both fun and difficulty with hikite--they kept wanting to grab punches out of the air instead of taking the initiative, but once they got the hang of it, they saw a lot of value in it.
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Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society

Wado Heretic · Green Belt

I have been a Guest Stand-Up Coach at a couple of Gyms/Clubs. I have also been an interim striking coach on and off over the years for a couple of friends Gyms. One is a proper MMA Gym and the other a pro-wrestling school, but they have Shoot-Wrestling Sessions, and some Cardio Kick-Boxing too.

My general experience has not been unlike Wastelander’s, which is to say, if you stick to what they will find useful against a resisting opponent they will get something out of what you teach. I have broken down the approaches of fighters such as Lyota Machine, Stephen Thompson, and Katsunori Kikuno. I break down where their techniques come from with regards to Karate Shiai, and how to work those ideas into their own stand-up arsenal with drills. Karate Combat has been a goldmine for me with regards to Sundome Shiai and finding ways to transition those skills to full contact. I have also taken things from Kata Bunkai which apply very well to hand-fighting in both self-defence and a competitive setting, and how the stances can be used as foot-work tools for a variety of tasks. When I have not been a guest, but an interim coach, I am also very focused on context being key. I do not teach them karate, I teach them relevant fighting skills I found through the medium of Karate, and I blend those skills into a session covering the conventional Boxing and Kick-Boxing skills essential in MMA competition.

Now I will mention I have competed in Knock-Down Karate, bōgu-tsuki shiai, WAKO Semi-Contact Rules, Low-Kick, International Rules, and under Amateur Muay Thai rules. I was an aspiring Professional Kick-Boxer at one point in my, and during that period I also cross trained in Boxing and Lau Gar Kick-Boxing. The Shorei Kempo I studied in my youth was also an eclectic system which incorporated a lot from Nippon Kempo so I did a lot of Bogu Kumite during my teens and early adulthood. I have also dabbled in Shoot-Fighting, Kudo, Combudo, and Combat SOMBO when I was still competing. Unfortunately, I seriously injured my knee competing in Judo, which required my ACL to be reconstructed, when I was 26 and MMA did not really become a thing here locally until after that happened to me so never got to give it a go, even under amateur rules. Despite the injury, and my lack of MMA experience, the fact I have fighting experience I think does help lend some credibility to when I do go to a Fighting Gym to teach/coach.

With my own experience covered I would probably give the following insight in teaching at an MMA Gym:

1. If you are hiring the space to teach, then just teach what you teach. You are a paying customer. As long as you do not make statements about what you teach that are incongruent with reality and designed to try and get customers from other classes in the Gym, then it really is not the business of anyone else (Beyond the purposes of Safeguarding and Insurance) in the building beside you.

2. If you are hired as a Guest Coach to teach novel fighting skills from Karate, then teach novel fighting skills from Karate. Do not go in and try and teach a karate class. The existing audience are not likely to respond well to Reiho, being taught Kata (Without immediate reference to Bunkai), going through repetitions of basic techniques, or Basic Kumite Drills which teach skills they will likely have from elsewhere.

3. Do not pretend to be something you are not.

4. Develop a grasp of the basics of Boxing, Kick-Boxing, and Muay Thai because those will likely be the existing bodies of knowledge in an MMA Gym. It is also not a bad idea to cross-train in the aforementioned arts as they have great tools you can bring back to your karate.

I think people tend to have an image in their head about what MMA Gyms are like, and the truth is they are like most Dojo or Clubs you can visit. Karate developed an unfortunate reputation, as did most "traditional" martial arts with the birth of MMA. However, most fighters, or people interested in fighting, are not at all political about styles and systems. As long as you bring functional knowledge to the table, that has an immediate feel of functionality, then where the knowledge came from is tertiary in people's cares.
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R. Keith Williams

KarateKen · Green Belt

I've never seen it, just boxing, kickboxing, and BJJ, but I would not have a problem with it.

I have seen TKD taught at a fitness center, but not a MMA gym.

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

Wado Heretic, that's quite the resume you laid out. I found this statement rather inciteful:

Wado Heretic · Green Belt

Thank you, I appreciate your words. I apologise for not getting back to this sooner. I believe it important to lay out where one is talking from in topics like this so people have a sense of where the idea emerges.

As time goes by I have come to conclude the idea of Traditional and Modern Martial Arts is a farce designed to create two sides for marketing purposes.

There are Preservation focused Fighting Traditions and Progression Focused Fighting Traditions. All Fighting Systems come from a tradition prior, and even if the system is only a day old, unless it was created in complete ignorance by someone with no training, it will have inherited knowledge and traditions from its foundational knowledge base.

Brazilian Jujutsu is considered a Modern Martial Art but it is older than Tae Kwon Do, which is called a Traditional Martial Art, by nearly 20 years. Arguably 40 years if one argues Modern Tae Kwon Do did not differentiate itself from Tang Soo Do/Kong Soo Do until the 1960s. The traditional knowledge which BJJ inherited as part of its foundation has a straight lineage of nearly 400 years old if we keep in mind Judo was based on Kito-Ryu which was founded in the 17th Century. The forms, or traditional knowledge, of Tae Kwon Do are very young by any comparison with most of the forms coming into existence in the 60s and 70s of the 20th century.

The difference between the two is that BJJ goes outside of its own grounds and is forced to progress by the mindset of its practitioners. It has its famous four faces of Self-Defence, Vale Tudo, Jacket Wrestling, and No-Gi competition. Each forces the art to evolve or become redundant. New techniques are conceptualised, tried, and shown to work in competition or not. New knowledge is absorbed to keep the techniques relevant and working. There is a deep tradition on which all of this is grounded, but competition, and facing reality keep the system progressing.

Before I continue I am not being expressly critical of Tae Kwon Do. I am simply using it in contract to BJJ because it is relatively young among the Fighting Systems commonly called Traditional. In contract Tae Kwon Do does not have a culture of going outside the world of Tae Kwon Do. The fighting aspect of TKD often amounts to getting good at its competitive format. The forms are learnt to be preserved as forms, but they are very young and do not necessarily apply to effective application. One cannot study its forms as a matter of hoplology and uncover fighting techniques preserved there in. The forms are practiced effectively for the the sake of getting good at the forms and preserving them. But Tae Kwon Do was born out of Okinawan Karate, metamorphised by Japanese demands before it reached Korea, and then modified further by its pioneers. It has inherited knowledge from an ancient tradition, but its traditions are modern.

Thus using these two examples we can see the difference between what people call modern and traditional martial arts. Modern are those Progressive Fighting Arts that put emphasis on progression in effectiveness at what one is trying to be good at. Traditional are those systems where the focus is preserving knowledge as one encountered it, and getting good at the traditions as they are taught. But the truth is it is nothing to do with the age of the the art, and the truth is all Fighting Arts are traditional in that they are all traditions passed down.

You do have hybrids such as Judo where the Jacket Wrestling Sport pushes the system forward, and allows for progression, but there is a deep history preserved in the Kata, which also have principles and ideas invaluable to modern competition.

I try to embody this latter hybrid approach. I keep the kata straight, I keep the kihon straight, and I teach karate within the traditional context I was taught it as best I can. However, I go out of my comfort zone when I can to learn what Karate is good at, and what it is bad at, and try to embrace modern ideas to push my karate forward to get better at what it is already good at. I believe you can preserve the tradition, but progress its effectiveness. They are not mutually exclusive ideas.

Thus, to get back to topic, I take forward to others what I find karate is good at within the context of what they are trying to accomplish. They do not need the whole tradition to find skills they can employ and use. But it is all traditional. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants. We are all following traditions.
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R. Keith Williams

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