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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1901

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One likely theory to explain the tools becoming weapons is that it was the result of creative training by ex-warrior class martial artist. What probably happened was that when the Ryukyu Kingdom was completely abolished and taken over by the Japanese, Okinawan warrior classes were forced to earn a living by taking up activities like farming or fishing.

They continued to train in secret and likely made use of whatever was available to them as makeshift weapons or training tools. Common everyday objects that would not arouse the attention of enemies. Devising an effective way to use a common object as a weapon can only be done by someone with prior martial art knowledge, skills and experience.
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JR 137
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Just as the Japanese have difficulties pronouncing R and L in English words as they tend switch the them, to make one sound like the other.

Was the documentary agreeable to you?

Or has the Tee and history issues, blunted your curiosity on watching the entire production?


I spoke to a Japanese friend about this. Actually, it was more joking around, as he was taking good natured shots at my heritage too...

There's no "L" sound in Japanese, so that's part of the difficulty. And the "R" sound is supposedly a soft R, similar to when the British pronounce T as in water and bottle. If you hear a native British speaker with a heavy accent, they'll pronounce water bottle as "wa'er ba'le" (sorry, I'm trying my best to spell it out phonectically).

I've seen the documentary several times. Regardless of the spelling and the history mistake, I love it. It shows people training in karate in a way I'd love to train. It's a great way of training, but not the only way.

Another documentary that's along the same lines that I really enjoy is Samurai Spirit: Karate. Nicholas Pettas (former Kyokushin competitor) travels to Okinawa and trains under several karate masters and asks questions. He did several other arts such as judo and aikido in other episodes. Those were good too, but I like the karate episode best.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Just as the Japanese have difficulties pronouncing R and L in English words as they tend switch the them, to make one sound like the other.

Was the documentary agreeable to you?

Or has the Tee and history issues, blunted your curiosity on watching the entire production?


I spoke to a Japanese friend about this. Actually, it was more joking around, as he was taking good natured shots at my heritage too...

There's no "L" sound in Japanese, so that's part of the difficulty. And the "R" sound is supposedly a soft R, similar to when the British pronounce T as in water and bottle. If you hear a native British speaker with a heavy accent, they'll pronounce water bottle as "wa'er ba'le" (sorry, I'm trying my best to spell it out phonectically).

I've seen the documentary several times. Regardless of the spelling and the history mistake, I love it. It shows people training in karate in a way I'd love to train. It's a great way of training, but not the only way.

Another documentary that's along the same lines that I really enjoy is Samurai Spirit: Karate. Nicholas Pettas (former Kyokushin competitor) travels to Okinawa and trains under several karate masters and asks questions. He did several other arts such as judo and aikido in other episodes. Those were good too, but I like the karate episode best.


I once saw a 3D diagram of how R and L sound (this was some 15 years ago... I imagine it was the image of a solution to a partial differential equation, or something... but I can't recall the math behind it.) For Americans and most Europeans, the R and L sounds lie on two specific peaks. For many Asians, the peaks are almost merged together. It was interesting!
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished the documentary yesterday, and I thoroughly enjoyed it! Overall, it was very well-done. I think it'd be neat to take up Uechi Ryu for a bit to learn more (and it's available in my area!)

I must admit, however... the first time I saw Senchin, I thought it was a bit odd (kinda like the mating ritual of a Bird of Paradise that wasn't gonna find a mate.) As usual, education fixes ignorance!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The creative way of using baseball bats for shin conditioning seemed very painful, would prefer to wear shin pads but gotta love and respect there fortitude.

The movie starring Bill Murray "Lost in translation" uses the R and L in a comical way.

Bill was sent a female escort to his room, she kept saying to him " Lape me, Lape me" of course Bill couldn't understand what she was saying or asking for.

I had also brought up this topic with a Japanese friend, it was impossible to repeat after me R and L.

Not all fun though for the Japanese in Okinawa as they rebelled against the Americans in 1970.

Replacing samurai swords for basball bats; or is this another history repeats itself, openly swinging baseball bats but secretly they are Samurais?
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Just as the Japanese have difficulties pronouncing R and L in English words as they tend switch the them, to make one sound like the other.

Was the documentary agreeable to you?

Or has the Tee and history issues, blunted your curiosity on watching the entire production?


No it did not dissuade me from watching the video. It was ok.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
The creative way of using baseball bats for shin conditioning seemed very painful, would prefer to wear shin pads but gotta love and respect there fortitude.

The movie starring Bill Murray "Lost in translation" uses the R and L in a comical way.

Bill was sent a female escort to his room, she kept saying to him " Lape me, Lape me" of course Bill couldn't understand what she was saying or asking for.

I had also brought up this topic with a Japanese friend, it was impossible to repeat after me R and L.

Not all fun though for the Japanese in Okinawa as they rebelled against the Americans in 1970.

Replacing samurai swords for basball bats; or is this another history repeats itself, openly swinging baseball bats but secretly they are Samurais?


I've been using a 1" dowel for shin conditioning... I'm no where near baseball bats, though! Maybe one day...
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5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do

(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
The creative way of using baseball bats for shin conditioning seemed very painful, would prefer to wear shin pads but gotta love and respect there fortitude.

The movie starring Bill Murray "Lost in translation" uses the R and L in a comical way.

Bill was sent a female escort to his room, she kept saying to him " Lape me, Lape me" of course Bill couldn't understand what she was saying or asking for.

I had also brought up this topic with a Japanese friend, it was impossible to repeat after me R and L.

Not all fun though for the Japanese in Okinawa as they rebelled against the Americans in 1970.

Replacing samurai swords for basball bats; or is this another history repeats itself, openly swinging baseball bats but secretly they are Samurais?


I've been using a 1" dowel for shin conditioning... I'm no where near baseball bats, though! Maybe one day...
It is all based on micro fracturing bone and the healing process.
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