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Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
MatsuShinshii wrote:
We use both Uchinaguchi and Japanese in our organization. Why? I guess because my Shinshii might only have known a word or technique in that language and not the other. Either way as the post questioned... yes we have had others join and use a different terminology than what we use.

I think it is quite common. I think the main reason is many instructors get their indoctrination in their chosen arts language inside the Dojo and if their teacher had never been to that country nor speaks the language themselves then misunderstanding meaning is easy to do. Thus you have one instructor calling something one thing and another calling it something else.

If you want to know if you're right take a trip to your arts origins and seek out an instructor. They will correct you and you will know the proper terminology for your arts techniques.

We use some Uchinaaguchi terms, as well, which I know probably confuses some people. I have to say, though, that it really excites the Okinawans in our organization when we use them

Too true, they do love when you use their language. I have been on a mission to find the proper terminology in Uchinaguchi to replace the Japanese but it's been a few year journey and proven harder than I thought.

I've been told that there just aren't words in Uchinaguchi that translate from the Japanese words and vice versa. Hard to fathom but that is what I've been told.

It's about a 60/40 split. Most of the terminology is Japanese with only 40% being Uchinaguchi. Seems wrong. I personally would rather it be one or the other but would much prefer Uchinaguchi as its an Okinawan art.
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14607
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soke and Dai-Soke were fluent in both Uchinaguchi and Japanese, which is of no surprise because each of them were born and raised in Nangushiku [Nanjo], Okinawa.

They mostly mixed them both at any given time depending on their moods; when frustrated at our inept ability to understand a single word, they'd revert to grunting and pointing and physically direct us and soft taps of a Shinai would replace any spoken attempts.

Over time, WE learned to understand them both, however, their desire to learn English was a test of futility. They both acted as though they didn't understand or speak English, but over time, we within the innermost circle knew better. Besides, they'd forget, and usable English would escape from their lips, much more often then they'd ever admit.

So, not only were we learning Shindokan from them both, but we were also learning two languages. I've heard it said, that when the Shindokan Hombu was first opened, interpreters were used. However, when I joined in 1964, there were none to be found. So, we did the best we could with what we had, and our Sempai's made a world of differences.

Still, get them riled up, then Uchinaguchi flowed freely on the floor.

**Proof is on the floor!!!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to get to grips with Wing Chun vocabulary from one organisation to the next is next to near impossible, as it is conceptual based, interpretations can be varied.

Also names for hand positions or shapes can also be named after movements.

Wing Chun centre line concepts are also varied depending on who is explaining them.

Wing Chun yin yang theory can have many interesting interpretations as yin the feminine aspect can be just ignored and put to one side.

With the Chinese have a character/word for everything that can seem totally unrelated, or unclear to what its meaning is.

Yee ge Kim yung ma. AKA The mother of all stances goat clamping character two adduction horse stance.

Naming a technique which has simultaneous punching and deflecting... doesn't make sense to give elaborated names therefore the word Da represents the combination of striking and deflecting... such as pack da, gun da, wu da, tun da, is very helpful to keep things as simple as possible.

As it has sometimes been said that there are no blocks in Wing Chun, which doesn't seem possible, unless knowing that with the forward thinking, movements and concepts of instantaneousness of a strike could also be deflecting, then it would make sense, as rearly that one thing at a time is happening, hence the confusion of names and terminology, in the Wing Chun system; not forgetting to mention that, even on film, naming that movement, might just look like a blur.
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