Add KarateForums.com
tallgeese Celebrates 10 Years as a Moderator!
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Terminology Reply with quote

We all use terminology in our dojos that are specific to our style or school, but may be slightly (or outright) different to other styles or schools.

For example: the humble 'Upper Block', to date I have seen two different terms for it "Jodan Uke" and "Age Uke". One meaning Upper Block and the other Rising Block.

For you as instructors, how often do you hear different terms for the techniques that you teach?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only Japanese is dojo Japanese, so take it as you will...

Regarding jodan uke vs age uke, my understanding is jodan is head or high (in the sense of head), whereas age is rising. We use jodan uke, jodan tsuki, etc.

We have age tsuki in our syllabus, which is translated as rising punch. If you know the Pinan/Heian series of kata, itís in Pinan 5; at the top of the embusen after the kake dachi and uraken strike. Being Goju Ryu, you probably donít know Pinan 5, so hereís a video

The 13th count. He did a slow kind of raising of the arm; I learned it as a fast punch held out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwfbHEZTero

Long story short, IMO jodan uke AND age uke are correct. It all depends on if you want to call it high block or rising block.

I think itís basically the same for other stuff. Iíve heard the circular block at the end of Sanchin kata called shuto mawashi uke (knife hand circular block), einke mawashi uke (wrist circular block), and shuto einke uke. Which is right? Better question is which is actually wrong.

Then again, if you subscribe to the belief that the blocks arenít really blocks at all, then calling any of them uke is technically wrong But thatís another thread. Everythingís gotta be called something.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This probably varies significantly from place to place but, the Japanese terminology is used often enough for everyone who has been training a few years to have heard it all. It makes things easier and smoother when groups from different branches practise together for an association connected with Okinawa/Japan. Also much more likely to be frequently or exclusively used if one was taught in Japanese or is the direct student of a native instructor who speaks nothing else.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2405
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most frequently, the interchanging of chudan-soto-uke and chudan-uchi-uke, and their accompanying English terminology.

Chudan-soto-uke = Middle level outside receiver/"block"
Chudan-uchi-uke = Middle level inside receiver/"block"

Now, at first glance, you would not think these could ever be mixed up--one is outside and one is inside, right?

The trouble is that some people name the technique based on the direction it moves (inward, toward the center line, or outward, away from the center line), while other people name the technique based on the part of the arm being used (inside of the wrist or outside of the forearm). This means that one person will call it an "outside middle block" because their arm is moving toward the outside, while another person would call that same movement an "inside middle block" because it is the inside of their wrist that makes contact.

Personally, I believe that those referring to the part of the arm being used should label it as such--either chudan-soto-ude-uke or chudan-uchi-ude-uke, with "ude" meaning "arm." I have seen a few schools do it, but it's not common, probably because it takes so long to say
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
My Blog: www.karateobsession.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use Korean terminology when doing basics and board breaking in our school. I've got a lot of TKD books, and I notice in reading them that the terms we use are different for many of the techniques. Not sure why, as I don't speak a lick of Korean, other than the terms I use in class.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We use both Uchinaguchi and Japanese in our organization. Why? I guess because my Shinshii might only have known a word or technique in that language and not the other. Either way as the post questioned... yes we have had others join and use a different terminology than what we use.

I think it is quite common. I think the main reason is many instructors get their indoctrination in their chosen arts language inside the Dojo and if their teacher had never been to that country nor speaks the language themselves then misunderstanding meaning is easy to do. Thus you have one instructor calling something one thing and another calling it something else.

If you want to know if you're right take a trip to your arts origins and seek out an instructor. They will correct you and you will know the proper terminology for your arts techniques.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The further one is from the source language of whatever one practises, the more likely are misinterpretations and errors in terminology usage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6118
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
We use Korean terminology when doing basics and board breaking in our school. I've got a lot of TKD books, and I notice in reading them that the terms we use are different for many of the techniques. Not sure why, as I don't speak a lick of Korean, other than the terms I use in class.

Think it's the same reason as JR said. The words all mean slightly different things in Korean but non speakers tend to assign them the same English meaning. I've seen the same block be referred to as chookyo makgi (rising block) or olgul makgi (high block). Rather confusingly if you asked me what a high block was I'd be thinking the first move in Do San instead.

You might find this interesting as to why we use the terms hyung, tul and poomse to seemingly describe the same thing http://jungdokwan-taekwondo.blogspot.com/2011/11/hyung-tul-poomse-poomsae-whats.html?m=1
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2405
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MatsuShinshii wrote:
We use both Uchinaguchi and Japanese in our organization. Why? I guess because my Shinshii might only have known a word or technique in that language and not the other. Either way as the post questioned... yes we have had others join and use a different terminology than what we use.

I think it is quite common. I think the main reason is many instructors get their indoctrination in their chosen arts language inside the Dojo and if their teacher had never been to that country nor speaks the language themselves then misunderstanding meaning is easy to do. Thus you have one instructor calling something one thing and another calling it something else.

If you want to know if you're right take a trip to your arts origins and seek out an instructor. They will correct you and you will know the proper terminology for your arts techniques.


We use some Uchinaaguchi terms, as well, which I know probably confuses some people. I have to say, though, that it really excites the Okinawans in our organization when we use them
_________________
Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu | 2010-Present: Nidan | Sensei: Richard Poage, Jeff Allred
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker, Adrian Rivera
My Blog: www.karateobsession.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The same thing happens with karate. In Okinawa, the ďukeĒ techniques are named by where the movement ends instead of where it begins like in many dojo abroad. These were reversed so that a basic chudan soto uke referred to the one with the ďblockingĒ arm making contact with the outer side of the forearm. For uchi uke the contact arm ends at the opposite shoulder and contact is made with the inner side. Very confusing at first.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Instructor Central All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >