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The Pred
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 326

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Testing hypothetical Reply with quote

Say you run a dojo, and you do testing every 4 months for lower ranks. So for example its January, so the next promotion would be in May. For people that signed up in Jan, that is four months. But if you sign up in Feb, that would be 3 months. Clearly not fair. So do you make them wait till Sept? Not fair either.
(This is to assume you have people ready to test.) Do you say tough, or do have various testings such as if you sign up in Jan, you can test in May, sept, and Jan. And if you sign up in say July, Nov, March, and July.

Because if you do it on a set schedule, then someone either gets to test in a short amount of time, or they have to wait longer.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2350
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you only test every 4 months and someone's short a month or two, then so be it I guess. Hypothetically it'll only happen once, the first time around. Unless they take some time off. Also, timeframes should be a minimum and not a maximum.

My CI schedules kyu tests every 2 months. Quite often no one is eligible/ready. It's basically on the calendar to keep him on track and organized.

But realistically speaking, time in grade is only one aspect of promoting. The CI should know if someone's ready or not regardless of time in grade.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what we do for our students:

Juniors:
2 x Term (8 per year) or where required 3x Term

Seniors:
1x Term (4 per year)

Black Belt Grading (Juniors): 2x Yearly
Black Belt Grading (Seniors): 1x Yearly (2x if required)


For ALL Kyu Grades (Juniors + Seniors) you must attend a MINIMUM of 30 lessons and have passed 5 in grade tests prior to being eligible for grading. If you are 6 lessons (=1 in class test) out then tough luck and you have to wait till the next grading to be able to attend.

We do however make some exceptions to allow students to grade with less than the 5 'tags'. They are limited to either being ONE Lesson away from being tested for their final tag OR if that final test had fallen on the Grading Day.

Our 1st Kyu's are Permitted to Grade to Black Belt with 4 Tags on the provision that they have met our other requirements prior to grading.


However our Black Belts must meet the TIME IN GRADE Requirements prior to being eligible to grade. My Sensei however has made some changes to allow those who possess a Senior Dan Grade (for my club currently anything above 2nd Dan) we are permitted to grade within' 6 Months of becoming eligible. That means originally we had to wait 3.5 Years to attempt for 3rd Dan, now we can Grade at 3 years (no earlier) if able.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one, and I mean no one can attend any Testing Cycle UNLESS the Hombu approves the candidate!! CI's can recommend someone for any authorized Testing Cycle, however, the Hombu/SKKA approves or denies ALL TESTING CYCLE CANDIDATES!! No exceptions whatsoever!!



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The Pred
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 326

Styles: Goju Ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback. My personal view is to allow testing opportunities every month, just to take account of when people sign up all year around.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Testing hypothetical Reply with quote

The Pred wrote:
Say you run a dojo, and you do testing every 4 months for lower ranks. So for example its January, so the next promotion would be in May. For people that signed up in Jan, that is four months. But if you sign up in Feb, that would be 3 months. Clearly not fair. So do you make them wait till Sept? Not fair either.
(This is to assume you have people ready to test.) Do you say tough, or do have various testings such as if you sign up in Jan, you can test in May, sept, and Jan. And if you sign up in say July, Nov, March, and July.

Because if you do it on a set schedule, then someone either gets to test in a short amount of time, or they have to wait longer.


We had this same problem (not really a problem). We held testing every 4 months for the lower Mudansha grades. And yes we would get complaints from those that joined in say february to use your example. However at the time we told them it would only happen once and that did satisfy most.

About 6 years ago someone suggested to Shinshii that tests be offered every two months instead of four. This worked out pretty well as it limited the time you would have to wait to test. Of course this was and is not perfect because you still may have to wait 5 months, but it's better than 7 months.

I personally hold testing every month on a set day. Those ready to test are able too, those that aren't wait, but once they are ready the longest they wait is a month. However I must clarify that this is not a set cycle. Our students do not get to test every 4 months unless they are ready to test. It could be 6 months or 3 months depending on their effort and on the instructors discretion.

So to be honest it doesn't matter how often you have a testing cycle if your students aren't ready. Time in grade to me is more of a suggestion not a set in stone date because everyone progresses at different rates.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14301
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If, hypothetically, you, as the CI, have absolute authority away from your Hombu, then, imho, when and whom are to test or not, is only up to you, and you alone. However, if your Hombu has a say so, one way or another, than that final decision is left up to the Hombu, and the Hombu only.

If I was free to choose the when and whom, and with your hypothetical parameters, I'd not invite any student with less than 3 full months of training into any testing cycle; testing cycles would be scheduled once every 3 months, aka, once every calendar quarter, having 4 quarters each calendar year.

1 month of training isn't enough to warrant a testing cycle due to the lack of knowledge, if any.

2 months of training, while it's better than having only 1 month of training, however, it's not much better than having only 1 month of training. Yes, more is taught and drilled, however, what that type of student possesses is marginal across the board.

3 months of training, leading up to my acceptable time of training before any one student is ever to be considered for an upcoming testing cycle. Those 3 months, one more month than one with only 2 months of training, more is learned and drilled, and in that, the marginal parameters are narrowed down, thus, more maturity is gained.

Albeit, even after 3 months of solid training under my supervision, and the noted improvements across the board, still doesn't guarantee that any one student under these parameter(s) will even be allowed, or invited, to a scheduled testing cycle.

Attendance, while it might be admirable, doesn't guarantee anything on and off the floor.




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G95champ
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 29 Mar 2002
Posts: 3116
Location: Gilbert WV, USA
Styles: Shotokan Karate (FSKA)

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do testing on a student by student basis.

If I can get several students ready to test on a given date great but my rules is simple. 1. You must have attended at least 30 classes (90 mins) over a 3 month period to be eligible to test.

However, I will give you permission to test this has two major results one I don't have to fail many students because I have to approve them. If they demand to test but I don't think their ready well, it's a great time to prove a point lol. The second result is students who want to advance attend more often and train harder because their testing for me every class.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Re: Testing hypothetical Reply with quote

The Pred wrote:
Say you run a dojo, and you do testing every 4 months for lower ranks. So for example its January, so the next promotion would be in May. For people that signed up in Jan, that is four months. But if you sign up in Feb, that would be 3 months. Clearly not fair. So do you make them wait till Sept? Not fair either.
(This is to assume you have people ready to test.) Do you say tough, or do have various testings such as if you sign up in Jan, you can test in May, sept, and Jan. And if you sign up in say July, Nov, March, and July.

Because if you do it on a set schedule, then someone either gets to test in a short amount of time, or they have to wait longer.


Our school has this issue! It's been exacerbated by the business of our master instructor, too... we no longer have a set testing schedule!

I was a white belt for 6 months due to the testing cycle, and due to my own personal commitments outside the class. The same thing has happened to me multiple times... A test would happen too soon for me to test, and then I'd end up waiting until the next one. I've been at it for nearly 3 years, and I'm only 5th geup.

We train on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 6pm-8pm, and our tests, when they happen, are on a Saturday morning. To make things a bit more complicated, our school has 2 locations, which are about 45 minutes apart from one another.

In my opinion, it's important to have testings for students. The first 2 or 3 ranks, however, could probably be done in-class when the instructors feel the student is ready. Maybe once they hit the 4th rank in their art (assuming there are 10 to hit black belt,) then get them on a regular schedule.
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(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo)
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