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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: The Condition Of Your Fist Could Be Classified As Weapons? Reply with quote

If you have conditioned your fists for fighting then are they weapons?

Considering a boxer that has wrapped and gloved hands for sporting events which are not looking like human weapons.

However conditioning fists that have obviously been developed for fighting purposes might not hold up well in a court of law, if cross examined.

As to say that an incident was in self defence, but having prepared previously for the advent, with battle ready fists, might not be in your favour, as judges could see your readiness as being prepared in another perspective, as in being ready to fight, which is not self defence.

Just to consider if an incident arises with your word against theirs, that the condition of your fists might work for you or against you.

Personally I take the option of conditioning my fists for fighting, knowing very well that it could backfire, if involved it a confrontation that goes to court.

Have you considered the consequences of having conditioned fists for fighting?
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1876

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many justice systems that specifically mention weapons by design versus weapons by purpose or usage. A firearm is a weapon by design and is always treated as such. Itís purpose is to kill and nothing else. A billiard ball is not meant to be a weapon, but if used as one in an altercation it will be treated as a weapon.

Fists and feet whether trained or not would probably be in that same category by courts. The only difference is that a person with training may be judged more severely due to the general publicís perception of martial arts. Most people do not train in any kind martial arts or combat sport and base their impressions of it entirely on whatever they read or hear from often dubious sources.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having conditioned fists for fighting purposes isn't against the law, as then feet elbows, shins, teeth, forearms, forehead would also be considered so.

However for martial artists, that have a background in fighting, I suggest if you are a striker, to consider another option, than trading punches one on one, where the opponent doesn't stand much of a chance against you.

So instead of knocking out the opponent, then here is another option.

Something to consider training for, is attacking biceps, instead of the opponents head or body trunk.

This might be a sensible option especially where cameras and when law enforcement is close by.

Bicep destruction, as what it is termed as, might be controversial for some, if it works or not.

Might look good (in a court room) as attacking the opponent's biceps instead of causing brain damage with punches

From my experience it works and works very well to attack biceps.
https://youtu.be/V6LkeG1B6Qg
https://youtu.be/VwQ1vxs1G_E
https://youtu.be/_dRLnZMJfoo

Self inflicted bicep attacks examples
https://youtu.be/yegr12_Eg2w
https://youtu.be/71vCiWyEI2A
https://youtu.be/s7RBneTK4kg

Hot to do a bicep strike
https://youtu.be/oEXo06tHD_s

It doesn't matter how strong a person is, biceps tear a lot easier than one might think
https://youtu.be/kV4Dz4S_gwI

As it isn't just the opponent's biceps that can be attacked it is also the tender part of the elbow, these targets are easier to get to than the head and are at the very least great setups for more damaging techniques
https://youtu.be/AGYhJsLHZoU
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
There are many justice systems that specifically mention weapons by design versus weapons by purpose or usage. A firearm is a weapon by design and is always treated as such. Itís purpose is to kill and nothing else. A billiard ball is not meant to be a weapon, but if used as one in an altercation it will be treated as a weapon.

Fists and feet whether trained or not would probably be in that same category by courts. The only difference is that a person with training may be judged more severely due to the general publicís perception of martial arts. Most people do not train in any kind martial arts or combat sport and base their impressions of it entirely on whatever they read or hear from often dubious sources.
This is spot-on. There is no such thing as "hands being registered" in the U.S. However, if training has made one more capable of hurting others, then level of prosecution can change because of that. It really boils down to what kind of damage gets done vs the level of force necessary to stop an attack. Then there are the particulars of why the attack happened, and how you explain your actions and the reason behind them.

So much goes into it; much more than I think most Martial Artists take the time to evaluate.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15710
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Higaonna Sensei just might have a problem with the courts, IF, an issue was to arise with his actions...after all, Higaonna Sensei's hand conditioning is quite impressive.

I, myself, don't worry about what the courts might or might not consider in this regard because the issue at hand is for me to defend myself, therefore, I'll use whatever means are at my disposal; I'll worry about the police and/or courts when the time comes.




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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2442
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My hands are registered weapons. However, Iím not allowed to put my hands in my pockets because I donít have a concealed weapon permit. Not yet anyway. I made sure wearing gloves is ok though.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
My hands are registered weapons. However, Iím not allowed to put my hands in my pockets because I donít have a concealed weapon permit. Not yet anyway. I made sure wearing gloves is ok though.
ROFL Very funny

Here is a boxer that knows how to give and take a punch all by himself
https://youtu.be/VcBmf6dDmeE

These people are dangerous....to themselves

Selfies.. inflicted knockouts compilation
https://youtu.be/wOZj5lMxyxQ
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468


PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During a court case due to a fight, it is the duty of the prosecution to twist the truth, for example.

Quote:
against my adversary with a long police record of violence and being physically quite larger than myself and a face that looked pretty tough as he was a forward in a rugby team...

So to prove their case there were only xrays, hospital records and statements made during questioning. During being questioned by the prosecution I was shocked when he suddenly said Ďíso you have been practicing martial arts for a while, is that how you overpowered a larger man than yourself and caused his physical injuries so easily?Ē...

My point is whether registered or not any of you here with a martial arts background whatever it is, should beware if you end up in court as it could be brought up.

Unquote

Are martial art black belts registered as weapons?
https://www.quora.com

More opinions, asking the same question

https://youtu.be/HyERhyXan_g

https://youtu.be/GinEogh-RY0
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29283
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not only could it be brought up, it will be brought up.
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