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Kai-M
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 8

Styles: Shotokan Karate, Aikido, Aikijujutsu

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Hawkmoon,

I am feeling a bit anxious about annoying you, but I really want to say this to you . . .

DISCERN:
1. to perceive by the sight or some other sense or by the intellect; see, recognize, or apprehend
2. to distinguish mentally; recognize as distinct or different; discriminate

So in this case, to paraphrase Bruce,

don't discern (hard work)
donít TRY to discern (sounds like really hard work)
donít think
just feel

it is like a finger pointing at the moon . . .

The ironic thing about this whole conversation is, that you and Sensei8 are expressing this deep frustration, but I would hazard a guess that you both actually understand this point FAR more than most people Ė because you are karateka, very used to moving beyond language and logic - and thinking through your body Ė in a way that many people never even get to dream of, let alone experience.

And secondly, perhaps the fact that you are feeling frustration at the challenge means that you are on the cusp of grasping this mystery? Think of it as like a koan . . .

Often, only when we are able to admit in frustration that we don't know anything, can true koan practice begin. - http://zenproject.faithweb.com/zen_teachings/koan_practice.html

But I think Bruce is trying to say that once you start trying to capture these things in words and logical thought, they slip out of your grasp . . . ?

ok I will stop now, before you start trying to get me banned from this forum
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14517
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kai-M wrote:
Dear Hawkmoon,

I am feeling a bit anxious about annoying you, but I really want to say this to you . . .

DISCERN:
1. to perceive by the sight or some other sense or by the intellect; see, recognize, or apprehend
2. to distinguish mentally; recognize as distinct or different; discriminate

So in this case, to paraphrase Bruce,

don't discern (hard work)
donít TRY to discern (sounds like really hard work)
donít think
just feel

it is like a finger pointing at the moon . . .

The ironic thing about this whole conversation is, that you and Sensei8 are expressing this deep frustration, but I would hazard a guess that you both actually understand this point FAR more than most people Ė because you are karateka, very used to moving beyond language and logic - and thinking through your body Ė in a way that many people never even get to dream of, let alone experience.

And secondly, perhaps the fact that you are feeling frustration at the challenge means that you are on the cusp of grasping this mystery? Think of it as like a koan . . .

Often, only when we are able to admit in frustration that we don't know anything, can true koan practice begin. - http://zenproject.faithweb.com/zen_teachings/koan_practice.html

But I think Bruce is trying to say that once you start trying to capture these things in words and logical thought, they slip out of your grasp . . . ?

ok I will stop now, before you start trying to get me banned from this forum

Solid post!!



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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: The Incomplete Point!! Reply with quote


Noooooo!!

I point to the OPs first sentence!
sensei8 wrote:
For grins and giggles, if for no other reason(s)...
....


As to me personally I see the scene in the film as an in joke one that I believe Mr Lee put into the film script for the very reason this post now runs!

No offence was taken were good! its cool!
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ďA human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.Ē
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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Kai-M
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 8

Styles: Shotokan Karate, Aikido, Aikijujutsu

PostPosted: Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no worries Hawkmoon have a lovely Christmas!
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