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chrissyp
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 175
Styles: Muay Thai/ Shotokan
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:37 am Post subject: The Kyokushin kick vs Thai kick |
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Can someone explain the mechanics of the kyokushin kick to me? I've been watching a lot of their fights, and I noticed it great for making angles, but to me, it looks exactly the same almost as a "brazilian kick"...please enlighten me.
As a thai boxer, what is the benefit of learning both techniques? |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Kyokushin has lots of kicks, but since you mention the "Brazilian kick" I assume you are talking about the fake-front-kick setup for the roundhouse kick with the same leg, also sometimes called a "question mark kick" because that is the shape it draws in the air. I've never heard it called the "Kyokushin kick," though.
If that's the technique you are talking about, the kicking leg comes straight up, as if to throw a front kick, but then whips over to throw a roundhouse kick--usually to the head because the fake-front-kick should have brought their guard lower. Alternatively, the front kick portion can be an actual front kick instead of just a fake. The kick developed in sport karate, Taekwondo and Muay Thai pretty much the same way, and I don't know where it was first used for certain.
In any case, the benefits of learning more than one way to do it are likely going to be limited unless the subtle differences between those methods is enough to overcome your opponent's defense to the way it is normally done in your art. _________________ Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Wastelander wrote: |
Kyokushin has lots of kicks, but since you mention the "Brazilian kick" I assume you are talking about the fake-front-kick setup for the roundhouse kick with the same leg, also sometimes called a "question mark kick" because that is the shape it draws in the air. I've never heard it called the "Kyokushin kick," though.
If that's the technique you are talking about, the kicking leg comes straight up, as if to throw a front kick, but then whips over to throw a roundhouse kick--usually to the head because the fake-front-kick should have brought their guard lower. Alternatively, the front kick portion can be an actual front kick instead of just a fake. The kick developed in sport karate, Taekwondo and Muay Thai pretty much the same way, and I don't know where it was first used for certain.
In any case, the benefits of learning more than one way to do it are likely going to be limited unless the subtle differences between those methods is enough to overcome your opponent's defense to the way it is normally done in your art. |
I know it as a change-up roundhouse kick. If properly done, very few can block it. Especially if the front kick segment causes your opponent to totally commit to a kick that isn't there anymore. Used in religiously during my tournament days; quite effective and successful.
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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chrissyp
Orange Belt
Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 175
Styles: Muay Thai/ Shotokan
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences |
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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chrissyp wrote: |
Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences |
Ah, I see. Well, I don't train in Muay Thai or Kyokushin, so I'll go on what I know about them. A Thai roundhouse kick is generally done with the supporting leg standing on the ball of the foot, and with the hip turned all the way over so that, at full extension, the kick actually lands at a downward angle, and the toes and foot are pulled back to tense the muscles of the shin. In karate (can't say for certain that this is how Kyokushin does it) we tend to keep the supporting foot flat on the floor to provide better balance, and we usually kick at an upward angle or horizontally with the toes and foot pointed. Both hit with the shin, but the toes being pointed in the karate version gives us a little extra reach because we can land with the ankle and instep, too. I've learned to kick both ways, but I get knocked off balance pretty consistently if I stand on the ball of my supporting foot, Thai style, so I try not to do that part. Another feature is that the Thai kick is usually done by stepping to an angle first in order to help generate more power, while the karate style kick is typically launched by just pivoting on your supporting foot. _________________ Kishimoto-Di | 2014-Present | Sensei: Ulf Karlsson
Shorin-Ryu/Shinkoten Karate | 2010-Present: Yondan, Renshi | Sensei: Richard Poage (RIP), Jeff Allred (RIP)
Shuri-Ryu | 2006-2010: Sankyu | Sensei: Joey Johnston, Joe Walker (RIP)
Judo | 2007-2010: Gokyu | Sensei: Joe Walker (RIP), Ramon Rivera (RIP), Adrian Rivera
Illinois Practical Karate | International Neoclassical Karate Kobudo Society |
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Kuma
Black Belt
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092
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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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chrissyp wrote: |
Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences |
The roundhouse kick (mawashi geri) in Kyokushin is a hybrid of traditional karate and Muay Thai. The biggest difference is that with the Kyokushin round kick you still chamber the leg prior to execution. Otherwise the arm movements, placement and use of the support foot, and hip motion are very similar.
This should give you a visual idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj2cQhxy6sY |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30167
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:42 am Post subject: |
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we keep our support foot firmly on the floor!
Simple physics, the whole foot has more grip than the ball of the foot.
Sure a sweep will take out the support (back) leg, but should your opponent evade your kick and punch you (your back leg is still on its own at this time) you have a better chance of holding your position even double up the strike to the head.
Question:
When you kick a Chudan Mawashi Geri. What part of the foot do you hit/strike with?
Haisoku (top of the foot)
Shin (Lower shin to foot area)
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? _________________ “A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16386
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Hawkmoon wrote: |
we keep our support foot firmly on the floor!
Simple physics, the whole foot has more grip than the ball of the foot.
Sure a sweep will take out the support (back) leg, but should your opponent evade your kick and punch you (your back leg is still on its own at this time) you have a better chance of holding your position even double up the strike to the head.
Question:
When you kick a Chudan Mawashi Geri. What part of the foot do you hit/strike with?
Haisoku (top of the foot)
Shin (Lower shin to foot area)
...
..
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My target parameters decide that for me, one or the other, however, for the most I utilize the Shin; it's similar to a baseball bat because of the striking area I use.
Do I want to stun or stop? This also decides my striking surface of the two.
_________________ **Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Hawkmoon
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin
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Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Cool, it is also how I weigh up an fight.
Clicker has me use my foot, it gives me speed, range all things I'm looking for.
Knockdown on the other hand has me use shin, for the obvious reasons, unless I go Jodan, then maybe I use the ball of the foot. _________________ “A human life gains luster and strength only when it is polished and tempered.”
Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate. |
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