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chrissyp
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 175

Styles: Muay Thai/ Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: The Kyokushin kick vs Thai kick Reply with quote

Can someone explain the mechanics of the kyokushin kick to me? I've been watching a lot of their fights, and I noticed it great for making angles, but to me, it looks exactly the same almost as a "brazilian kick"...please enlighten me.

As a thai boxer, what is the benefit of learning both techniques?
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2552
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyokushin has lots of kicks, but since you mention the "Brazilian kick" I assume you are talking about the fake-front-kick setup for the roundhouse kick with the same leg, also sometimes called a "question mark kick" because that is the shape it draws in the air. I've never heard it called the "Kyokushin kick," though.

If that's the technique you are talking about, the kicking leg comes straight up, as if to throw a front kick, but then whips over to throw a roundhouse kick--usually to the head because the fake-front-kick should have brought their guard lower. Alternatively, the front kick portion can be an actual front kick instead of just a fake. The kick developed in sport karate, Taekwondo and Muay Thai pretty much the same way, and I don't know where it was first used for certain.

In any case, the benefits of learning more than one way to do it are likely going to be limited unless the subtle differences between those methods is enough to overcome your opponent's defense to the way it is normally done in your art.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander wrote:
Kyokushin has lots of kicks, but since you mention the "Brazilian kick" I assume you are talking about the fake-front-kick setup for the roundhouse kick with the same leg, also sometimes called a "question mark kick" because that is the shape it draws in the air. I've never heard it called the "Kyokushin kick," though.

If that's the technique you are talking about, the kicking leg comes straight up, as if to throw a front kick, but then whips over to throw a roundhouse kick--usually to the head because the fake-front-kick should have brought their guard lower. Alternatively, the front kick portion can be an actual front kick instead of just a fake. The kick developed in sport karate, Taekwondo and Muay Thai pretty much the same way, and I don't know where it was first used for certain.

In any case, the benefits of learning more than one way to do it are likely going to be limited unless the subtle differences between those methods is enough to overcome your opponent's defense to the way it is normally done in your art.

I know it as a change-up roundhouse kick. If properly done, very few can block it. Especially if the front kick segment causes your opponent to totally commit to a kick that isn't there anymore. Used in religiously during my tournament days; quite effective and successful.


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chrissyp
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Joined: 16 Jan 2013
Posts: 175

Styles: Muay Thai/ Shotokan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences
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Wastelander
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Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2552
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrissyp wrote:
Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences


Ah, I see. Well, I don't train in Muay Thai or Kyokushin, so I'll go on what I know about them. A Thai roundhouse kick is generally done with the supporting leg standing on the ball of the foot, and with the hip turned all the way over so that, at full extension, the kick actually lands at a downward angle, and the toes and foot are pulled back to tense the muscles of the shin. In karate (can't say for certain that this is how Kyokushin does it) we tend to keep the supporting foot flat on the floor to provide better balance, and we usually kick at an upward angle or horizontally with the toes and foot pointed. Both hit with the shin, but the toes being pointed in the karate version gives us a little extra reach because we can land with the ankle and instep, too. I've learned to kick both ways, but I get knocked off balance pretty consistently if I stand on the ball of my supporting foot, Thai style, so I try not to do that part. Another feature is that the Thai kick is usually done by stepping to an angle first in order to help generate more power, while the karate style kick is typically launched by just pivoting on your supporting foot.
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Kuma
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 1092


PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chrissyp wrote:
Wastelander, sorry for the lack of clarity, that's my fault. I ment thai roundhouse vs kyokushin round house... the similaritys, diffrences


The roundhouse kick (mawashi geri) in Kyokushin is a hybrid of traditional karate and Muay Thai. The biggest difference is that with the Kyokushin round kick you still chamber the leg prior to execution. Otherwise the arm movements, placement and use of the support foot, and hip motion are very similar.

This should give you a visual idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj2cQhxy6sY
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bushido_man96
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Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do Kyokushin stylists tend to get up on the ball of their support leg like Thai kickers do, or do they keep more of a flat, solid sole, like many Karate or TKD stylists?
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Hawkmoon
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Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we keep our support foot firmly on the floor!

Simple physics, the whole foot has more grip than the ball of the foot.
Sure a sweep will take out the support (back) leg, but should your opponent evade your kick and punch you (your back leg is still on its own at this time) you have a better chance of holding your position even double up the strike to the head.

Question:
When you kick a Chudan Mawashi Geri. What part of the foot do you hit/strike with?

Haisoku (top of the foot)
Shin (Lower shin to foot area)
...
..
?
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15453
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hawkmoon wrote:
we keep our support foot firmly on the floor!

Simple physics, the whole foot has more grip than the ball of the foot.
Sure a sweep will take out the support (back) leg, but should your opponent evade your kick and punch you (your back leg is still on its own at this time) you have a better chance of holding your position even double up the strike to the head.

Question:
When you kick a Chudan Mawashi Geri. What part of the foot do you hit/strike with?

Haisoku (top of the foot)
Shin (Lower shin to foot area)
...
..
?

My target parameters decide that for me, one or the other, however, for the most I utilize the Shin; it's similar to a baseball bat because of the striking area I use.

Do I want to stun or stop? This also decides my striking surface of the two.



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Hawkmoon
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Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, it is also how I weigh up an fight.

Clicker has me use my foot, it gives me speed, range all things I'm looking for.

Knockdown on the other hand has me use shin, for the obvious reasons, unless I go Jodan, then maybe I use the ball of the foot.
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Sosai Masutatsu Oyama (1923 - 1994) Founder of Kyokushin Karate.
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