Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Chinese Martial Arts
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

wingedMonkey
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 168
Location: Arizona
Styles: Taekwondo, Mauy Thai, Kickboxing, modern Wushu, all forms of Kung Fu, Yang style Tai Chi, Baqua, Ground Fighting

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: The Origin and Lineage of Tiger Style. (all of them) Reply with quote

This post will be an overview of the very exhausting research I have done about the tiger style. I don't mean to have anyone offended but this information is all due to the general agreements of several sources.

As I mentioned I won't be posting all the information because it's a lot but just some main points I found. You are all welcome to post more information you may know too. I hope to eventually write a book with all the information I have and places cited for everyone to enjoy.

I decided to do this research after my Sifu who taught me Southern Shaolin Style moved away. I learned about how there were many tiger styles out there but how they all looked extremely similar. Later did I find they were all related.
_________________
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting, but if I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying."
- Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger

wingedMonkey
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 168
Location: Arizona
Styles: Taekwondo, Mauy Thai, Kickboxing, modern Wushu, all forms of Kung Fu, Yang style Tai Chi, Baqua, Ground Fighting

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here are the main points:

* 13th Century - Jueyuan with the help of Li Sou known as the master of Red Fist, and Bai Yufeng an internal arts master use their combined knowledge to return the internal aspects to shaolin boxing eventually organizing the Five Animal Styles which includes Tiger

* Around 1732 - A tea merchant name Jyu, whom becomes Hung Hei-Gun, learns the tiger style from Jee Sin Sim See (one of the Five Elders that survived destruction of Shaolin from the Qing Dynasty). Which eventually becomes Hung Ga.

* Still during Qing Dynasty - Jee Sin teaches nine other laymen (people learning kung fu not religion) four which along with Hung Hei-Gun become the top five family styles in China. A couple of these styles have their own Tiger forms.

* Others - From this point on others learn tiger style from defectors, families, or just by being laymen. Some examples are:

* Betweem 1910-1919 - Jow Ga is created which incorporates Hung Gar and Choy Gar. having its own forms of tiger.

* 1920's - Wong Cheung learns the Siu Lam Black Tiger style from the monk Fung Ping-Wai, a former shaolin monk, when they work together in Hong Kong. The Black Tiger Martial Arts Association is created because of him.

* Late 19th Century - Shandong Black Tiger Kung Fu originates from Master Wang Zhenyuan who learned tiger at Shaolin at this time.

These are just a couple of examples of the many that are now out there, including one that I am working on. I realized a year after learning southern shaolin tiger style that since it is considered the most external style by Shaolin that it was that main reason that I was able to learn it well because my TaeKwonDo is so external and hardness.
_________________
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting, but if I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying."
- Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger

fujau
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 69
Location: my foot your face
Styles: lau gar kuin, shen gung

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wingedMonkey wrote:
here are the main points:



These are just a couple of examples of the many that are now out there, including one that I am working on. I realized a year after learning southern shaolin tiger style that since it is considered the most external style by Shaolin that it was that main reason that I was able to learn it well because my TaeKwonDo is so external and hardness.


Sorry to offend but this is not intentional but

TKD has no resemblance to kung fu at least WTF you could of done karate for that matter the structure is all wrong the method and understanding is total different .

Ie WTF does not really use the tiger claw the stance does not resemble any kung fu style apart from the hanging stance (cat to some people )
the stance is rather long apart from there first poomsea which is really
not a stable stance and the main principle of scma is the depth of stance and the close quarter range of fighting so tkd is more bias to Northern style type of kung fu with their kicks

And the tkd horse stance is hell of a difference to a hung gar horse stance

look here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCNLCxPTnpY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAEP6dHqC_8&feature=related

this does not reassemble tkd

I put it down to you can pick up forms well which is cool and as long as you keep training hard regardless of style good for you
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

wingedMonkey
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 168
Location: Arizona
Styles: Taekwondo, Mauy Thai, Kickboxing, modern Wushu, all forms of Kung Fu, Yang style Tai Chi, Baqua, Ground Fighting

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't mean as in the styles are the same, I meant as in the way that both are really hard and external, while the tiger style still has some internal aspects, it is still the easiest in my eyes to ease a martial artist into Wushu.
_________________
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting, but if I tell you I'm no good, you know I'm lying."
- Bruce Lee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27701
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one book that I read, there was talk about some of the WTF style forms having some influence of some Chuan Fa in them, because of some of the previous training of those on the technical panels that developed those forms. I can look it up later on, and elaborate a bit more, if interested.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

fujau
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 69
Location: my foot your face
Styles: lau gar kuin, shen gung

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
In one book that I read, there was talk about some of the WTF style forms having some influence of some Chuan Fa in them, because of some of the previous training of those on the technical panels that developed those forms. I can look it up later on, and elaborate a bit more, if interested.



yeah that would be cool


this what i have found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s&feature=channel_page

which does show a transition from kung fu to karate i would of thought if you reverse the roll the other way would of been more beneficial

horses for courses
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27701
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a nice comparative video. Thanks for sharing it.

I'll dig up that bit of information when I get a chance.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

SnakeStrike77
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Connecticut
Styles: Shaolin Ch'uan Fa: 5 Animals: Ju-Jitsu

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fujau wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
In one book that I read, there was talk about some of the WTF style forms having some influence of some Chuan Fa in them, because of some of the previous training of those on the technical panels that developed those forms. I can look it up later on, and elaborate a bit more, if interested.



yeah that would be cool


this what i have found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s&feature=channel_page

which does show a transition from kung fu to karate i would of thought if you reverse the roll the other way would of been more beneficial

horses for courses


Hello! Was there any other info for this? As we advance further in the ranks we are learning in more detail of these animals, and I would very much enjoy another reference. Much Thanks in advance!!
_________________
Blue Belt/Stripe in Shaolin Ch'uan Fa
5 Animals
Ju-Jitsu
"Be Hard as Earth, Fight like Fire, Move like the Wind, and Flow like Water"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27701
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fujau wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
In one book that I read, there was talk about some of the WTF style forms having some influence of some Chuan Fa in them, because of some of the previous training of those on the technical panels that developed those forms. I can look it up later on, and elaborate a bit more, if interested.



yeah that would be cool


Here is what I found. In The Taegeuk Cipher, the author describes the influence of Quan Fa (which translates to Korean as Kwon Bop).

Yoon Pyung In grew up in the area of Changchun in Manchuria. He was said to have trained under a Mongolian instructor in an art referred to as "Joo An Pa" (Quan Fa), which was a Northern Chinese style.

When Yoon returned to Korea, he called his style "Kwon Bop" and the schools of his lineage, which included the YMCA Kwon Bop Bu, the Chang Moo Kwan, the Kang Duk Won, all featured some Quan Fa forms, including Long and Short Fist forms, a staff form, and some "sticky hands" drills and sweeping and grabbing methods.

So, my question is, is Quan Fa/Chuan Fa similar, just different ways to say the same thing, or two very different things?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

SnakeStrike77
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Connecticut
Styles: Shaolin Ch'uan Fa: 5 Animals: Ju-Jitsu

PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, my question is, is Quan Fa/Chuan Fa similar, just different ways to say the same thing, or two very different things?[/quote]

Much thanks for the info!! From what I gather In Chinese, where these characters are pronounced "quan fa" (sometimes Romanized as "chuan fa" because the Chinese-pinyin "q" actually sounds like an English "ch" sound), It is simply defined as "the law of the fist", or "fist law". I can double check with our Master but for what it's worth our rank certificates say "Ch'uan Fa".
_________________
Blue Belt/Stripe in Shaolin Ch'uan Fa
5 Animals
Ju-Jitsu
"Be Hard as Earth, Fight like Fire, Move like the Wind, and Flow like Water"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Chinese Martial Arts All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >