The possibility of being sued...

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

What do you think is the possiblity of ever being sued as a Martial Arts school owner/instructor for being "negligent in the teaching of self-defense?"

I know it may sound odd, but there are some very odd things out there that lawsuits have come out of...hot coffee, for instance.

Here is the scenario: Let's say you teach Martial Arts, and part of your curriculum is teaching self-defense. Now, lets say that one of your students gets ripped up very badly, or even worse, killed, in an altercation. Now, the family decides to sue you for negligence, stating that you did not teach well enough, or were negligent in your teaching approaches, etc. Now, you sit in court.

What do you think? Could this ever happen? I know it sounds far-fetched, and I don't really know what brought it on, but do you think that it could happen sometime? What are your thoughts? How would you react?
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AngryDelldo · Yellow Belt

Sounds crazy! I would be very upset by this, however I wouldn't be suprised because alot of people are like that.

Our Instructor always stresses to us that if we can avoid altercation to do so. Our self-defense like most is a "no choice" situation. He also stresses that it isn't full proof, there are just to many variables. Take the multiple attacker route and there isnt much you can do, because most self-defense is singular at least for me it is so far. And the worst scenario is facing bullets.

On another note I would love to be able to carry my Chucks or Katana around for self-defense just like people do with guns.
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username8517 · Green Belt

As far fetched as this sounds I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before someone tries to do it.

But to put it plainly, I do not believe you can sue someone because they didn't teach you properly. You can't sue your driving instructor if you cause a car wreck for negiligent teaching three years after taking classes. Or you can't sue your high school teacher because you failed a test in class because of their "negligent teaching."

I mean how do you judge a situation like that? Do you send the child to another instructor for the same amount of time and then throw him or her into another altercation and see how they fare that time?

Or was the person just unlucky that day and you're teaching could have helped them if they weren't jumped from behind or maybe they were sick or simply not paying attention the day you went over drills relating to how they were attacked or maybe they even had sprained ankle or throbing headache, or any other of the countless possibilities.

Then there's the whole point of proving negligence in instruction. It would first have to be determined at what point the law requires the instructor to provide care outside of the training hall's facility? Even after this is established, you would then have to proof that the instructor acted in a way that was carelessly withholding proper instructor despite foreseeing some kind of negative consequence from it.

The only way I would say you would deserve to get sued under this negligent instruction is if you put a guarantee that the student(s) would never be harmed in a fight. And I don't know anyone who'd make that claim as it would just be setting themselves up for a fraud charge.

It's as Angry said, the best bet is for conflict avoidance above all else.

tke010 · Orange Belt

some good stuff here.
yes, above is crazy, but it could happen.

Here is another possible scenario:
you teach one of your teenage students self defense. they are very dedicated and train really hard.
He gets attacked by 3 kids (off of school grounds).
using his training, he severly hurts one of the attackers. (broken arm or leg, or something worse...)
the injured attacker parents then sues my student and his instructor (me).

Could this happen, nowadays - maybe????

Here is a crazy story that I read somewhere about 3 years ago. I'll never forget it:
a baseball coach in bridgewater (i think), NJ lost his house in a lawsuit because some kid could not catch a ball and hurt himself.
The kid's parents sued and the judge\jury stated that the coach did not have in his log book that he taught how to block out sunlight, so it was the coaches fault he injured his eye (broken eye socket or something like that...). he actaully had to sell his home to make the payout....

crazy...

I tell my students to think of consequences prior to fighting. and by using your brain to avoid fights is the best martial arts moves you will ever learn
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lordtariel · Black Belt

Is it possible? Maybe. We live in a sue-happy world where anybody can sue for any reason, no matter how stupid.

It really just comes down to covering your butt when you do anything. Make sure there's something in the contract that says they waive the right to sue the dojo or instructors due to any injuries and such if and when applying the techniques learned.

Here's another possible scenario. A senior student shows another student a technique he's learned that gets little Johnny hurt when he tries to use it. Is the student responsible or is the instructor responsible?
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The BB of C · Black Belt

That post I just read about the parents sueing the baseball coach because their kid couldn't catch nearly made me go crazy with anger just now. It is more than likely to happen a lawsuit like this. But I will absolutely lose my mind if I ever hear about it.

obiwansbane · Blue Belt

bushido_man96 · KF Sensei

Lots of good stuff, guys. Keep it coming!

Bearich, you make some very good "cover your butt" points. Like I said, I don't know why I thought of this scenario, but by viewing all of the above posts, there are several other scenarios that I didn't think of that could happen.

In your post, bearich, you mention a few things that someone "can't" sue you for. I think that you could be sued for them, they just may not be able to make a good enough case to win. I know, its just a technicality, but it still ends up getting your name in a mix that you really don't want to be in.

I guess we can all hope that most of the students that sign up for the martial arts maintain the integrity to not follow through with such an act. However, it is also the responsibility of the instructors to know what they are teaching, what they are not teaching, and the integrity to relate this information to their students.
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KyleM · White Belt

I'm not sure how things are done over there in America, but here in Australia we are made to sign insurance waivers when we sign up, that basically state the instructors/dojo are not liable for anything that may happen in or out of the dojo in relation to the training.

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