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traz
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 78
Styles: MMA, Hapkido
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 Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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One of the important points you made in the beginning is one that I have thought about alot myself. That being...the chances of my actually getting attacked or into a fight are relatively low. And when I compare this to how much I train (costs, effort, time, etc) then I guess in that sense, it's not worth it to train to fight.
Lets go on to the next part of your post...
Perhaps martial art training is good for the mind, as well as the body. Perhaps martial art training is a great social activity. Perhaps the techniques, kata, philosophy, focus, strength, endurance and health aspects are more important than the ability to fight. Perhaps the ability fight is merely a byproduct of the martial arts training. I think most people would agree with this.
However, it is my opinion that much of the positives that you gain from martial arts...confidence, focus, health, spirituality, strength etc, are best gained when the focus of your training is the martial aspect. People always say that martial arts give you confidence, however the confidence stems from that fact that you know you can fight if it comes to that and that you can defend yourself. Same with health, if the focus of your training is martial, or to be able to fight, your health will naturally improve. As will your spirituality...when you posses power, you become more reluctant to use it, as you know the damage you can do. Plus, you have nothing to prove...you know what you can do. Many people fight to prove something...the martial artist doesn't feel the need to prove anything.
My point is this...you said "Perhaps the ability fight is merely a byproduct of the martial arts training" My response is that its the other way around. If you focus and concentrate on the fighting aspect of your art, then much of the other things come naturally with it. Thus, they are byproducts of fighting ability, fighting ability is not the by product.
Good article though 
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Like a midget at a urinal, I'm always on my toes |
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40 cent
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| awesome article. awesome. |
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honour is life
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 51
Location: reading, england
Styles: judo, ju jitsu. (going into tai chi and ninjitsu soon)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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first of all, brilliant posts! this is by far the best string i have read so far!
At this point I think we have to use the immortal ‘sitting on the fence’ argument… people train in martial arts for many different reasons; be it physical, spiritual or social.
The reason I started judo (my main sport) was when I was 8 me and my dad went to a car boot sale. There was a display on that we both watched. Previously my dad was a judoka up to green belt. I, being 8 was fascinated and immediately thought, I want to do that! The reasons? It looked good and my dad did it.
I think the real thing many people (not all) are overlooking here is the reason that people continue to do their martial art. If a person starts judo because they want to be able to beat someone up they are going to be bitterly disappointed! At this point one of two things could happen:
1: they could leave the club, having learnt nothing, gained nothing and wasted an evening
2: they could continue the art, learn and grow in all aspects of their life.
My point being. I do judo now to broaden my understanding of myself (physical and spiritual), learn an art that has been passed down for many years with the hope of continuing to pass it down myself. These are just a few reasons among many. A lucky effect of that is I know how to look after myself in a fight due to the fact that I understand the way my, and others bodies work (and cease to work if certain things are done)
That was my experience. Now with other arts which I have not experienced I am sure, from what I have read, that the output will be similar, surely the fact that the cause and effect are reversed is insignificant.
A couple of little points
Martial arts, despite popular belief did not originate in Japan, rather Africa, where tradesmen needed a form of defending themselves. Then, during trade the Africans went to Japan, where the systems where adopted and adapted.
If martial arts foremost reason is fighting, then why katas? Why judo? Why meditation? Why the self restraint taught to every person who studies martial arts???
interesting to see other peoples Opinions on this!
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you may freely give up your life, but never lose your honour |
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pineapple
Black Belt
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Hawaii
Styles: Kajukenbo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:18 am Post subject: |
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My point is this...you said "Perhaps the ability fight is merely a byproduct of the martial arts training" My response is that it's the other way around. If you focus and concentrate on the fighting aspect of your art, then much of the other things come naturally with it. Thus, they are byproducts of fighting ability, fighting ability is not the by product.
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I agree!
I still believe that MOST people BEGIN training in the martial arts for the ability to defend themselves. They CONTNUE training due to their recognition of so many other benefits.
As far as the level of fighting ability...well, I would say that no matter what you train in or how long, there is always someone who can beat you and if you realize this, it will help you to be humble.
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What works works |
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Mr Pockets
Orange Belt
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 199
Styles: striking and grappling
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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You know, I like and dislike the article. I myself have never criticized someone for taking up some martial art like TKD, Caporia, or Thai Chi, or for wanting to go to tournaments to do point sparring. If you think it's fun, go for it. More people in this country (USA) need to get in shape anyway. Thing is though, a lot of people are concerned about the street fighting aspect, because a lot of people are concerned about actually knowing how to fight. Maybe we want to use that ability in competition, or never, doesn't matter. I didn't buy a gun hoping to shoot someone with it, but if it comes down to me or the criminal, I don't plan on it being me. Also, it's fun to take it out and shoot cans or targets or something. Same goes for martial arts. A lot of us like going full contact, and becoming serious at fighting.
Another quick point- martial arts didn't just come from people needing to learn to fight and all that. They came from all sorts of philosophical areas too, and a lot of these martial arts were never really tested or proven, and therefor idealistic, theoretical, and impractical. For instance, practicing katas, is not as useful (oh dear lord I'm going to catch flack for saying this) as other training methods. If you like doing them, fine. If you do them hoping to learn to adequetly fight, you're wasting your time. Snazzed called it right- you would be better off taking boxing if all you want to do is learn to fight. Just because some martial arts are ancient and were originally intended to teach one to fight lethally doesn't mean they are or ever were any good at it. |
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GTF
Orange Belt
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 106
Location: south-yorkshire(near doncaster) UK
Styles: Hung-Gar Kung-fu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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the article was great. i chose my martial art based on how good it is for self defence and fighting as well as for enjoyment and fitness and other things
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Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil~Exodus 23:2
Violence, even well intentioned, always rebounds upon oneself.~Lao Tzu
And mankind is naught but a single nation~quran |
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mikaveli
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 41
Styles: Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Yoshido
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting article. I was wondering, if a martial art no longer focuses on fighting or self defence, why are they still referred to as 'Martial Arts'?
I don't have much understanding of why someone would want to train in a style that only has a 'Sports' application nowadays!
To me, the grade I wear around my waist represents my martial prowess, experience, honour and the respect of the people I train with.
However, as someone briefly touched upon, even the non-sports styles often spend years teaching how to execute a perfect punch/kick etc. without preparing the student for applying their knowledge in a defence situation.
Are our priorities wrong? |
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honour is life
Yellow Belt
Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 51
Location: reading, england
Styles: judo, ju jitsu. (going into tai chi and ninjitsu soon)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| To me, the grade I wear around my waist represents my martial prowess, experience, honour and the respect of the people I train with. |
very good way of putting it! i like; i like!
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Are our priorities wrong? |
it deppends on what you want out of martial arts. if you want to be a great street fighter then it is pointless going to a class that teaches only forms. but if you want to progress and be the best you can be in that art then it is equally pointless going to a class that diverses from the art and goes into street fighting.
its personal preference. so to the question "are our prioerities wrong" it deppends on what you want to gain. think!
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you may freely give up your life, but never lose your honour |
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Martial_Artist
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Posts: 935
Location: Western USA.
Styles: The Pure Art
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mikaveli
Yellow Belt
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 41
Styles: Tang Soo Do, Muay Thai, Yoshido
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:57 am Post subject: |
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[quote]Truthfully, and I have heard agrument contrary, the martial arts are for combat. Ballet is not for construction work, yoga is not for fighting. If a martial art is not for combat then why call it a MARTIAL ART? Because it has the word ART attached to it? An art, Webster's Dictionary, Geddes & Grosset, 2002, defines an art as this: "...skill, acquired by study and practice; any craft and its principles..." That is in the first line of definition. When did the martial arts become diluted by the appendage of the art to its name? Martial, without any need to refer to a dictionary, refers to things of war. Martial Arts is the skill, study, and practice and things pertaining to war.[/quote]
Some good points mate, but the 'Martial' bit doesn't seem to fit in to what I think of point and break comps, musical forms or the gymnastic displays of some styles. |
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on the post.
