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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: The term "defense." |
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Do you think that the term "defense," or even "self-defense," is the terminology of a victim?
If you think about the conotation of the word(s), I can see where this perception could come from.
As many of you may have seen, I am a proponent of the pre-emptive strike. Many would not associate the pre-emptive strike with the terminology of self-defense; many would consider it an attack, an initiative.
I think that attacking in the initiative, if you can sense the threat, is the best option, when the time comes. If self-defense is deemed reactionary, then do you think the term is also related to the term "victim?"
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marie curie
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1023
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:40 am Post subject: |
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IMHO,
Defending is not when I get punched and then attack- that is not self-defense; that is revenge.
Defending is when I get punched at then attack. When I defend myself I am taking a preventative measure against becoming a victim.
Although, I never really thought of it offense/defense, I think of it as defense/punishment, because I don't attack people unless they attack me... disliking jail and such... 
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You suck-train harder.......................Don't block with your face
A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
-Lao Tzu |
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TigerDude
Green Belt
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 370
Styles: Goju Ryu
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: |
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As a former member of the Department of Defense, I see no problem with the terminology. No victim mindset there!
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If you think only of hitting, springing, striking or touching the enemy, you will not be able actually to cut him. You must thoroughly research this. - Musashi |
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TraditionalDan
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 166
Location: Sussex England
Styles: Shotokan Karate-do, RBSD.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I think that the message to send out to people who want to defend themselves, is to not be afraid to strike pre-emptively if they feel it is neccessary. Also, they need to feel comfortable that the strike will be effective, if not, then they need to train more to develop an effective strike.
Especially if they feel that thier blocking/parrying and reaction skills are not up to defending against a spontaneous attack.
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Brighton Shotokan |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| TraditionalDan wrote: |
I think that the message to send out to people who want to defend themselves, is to not be afraid to strike pre-emptively if they feel it is neccessary. Also, they need to feel comfortable that the strike will be effective, if not, then they need to train more to develop an effective strike.
Especially if they feel that thier blocking/parrying and reaction skills are not up to defending against a spontaneous attack. |
I agree with you here. It is one thing to say you will "block and counter," when in actuality, you may not have the chance to see the attack coming.
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http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| marie curie wrote: |
IMHO,
Defending is not when I get punched and then attack- that is not self-defense; that is revenge.
Defending is when I get punched at then attack. When I defend myself I am taking a preventative measure against becoming a victim.
Although, I never really thought of it offense/defense, I think of it as defense/punishment, because I don't attack people unless they attack me... disliking jail and such... |
Your description makes it sound as if punching after being punched is a bad thing. When you state that it is revenge, it sounds, I don't know, like you don't like it, or agree with it. I am just curious if that is what you feel. Thanks in advance.
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marie curie
Black Belt
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 1023
Location: PA, USA
Styles: Ko Sutemi Seiei Kan Karate, Kajukenbo, Kodokan Judo, Gracie Barra Jiu-Jitsu, Olympic Tae Kwon Doe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 8:51 am Post subject: |
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I think of each contact from the attacker as a separate event, so yes, I'll punch after they hit me, but it is to prevent the next strike, not in retaliation of the previous.
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You suck-train harder.......................Don't block with your face
A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.
-Lao Tzu |
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mantis.style
Orange Belt
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 177
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| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Pre-emptive striking is still self defence. Defence and victim are not mutually exclusive. The thing to remember is what constitutes self defence according to the law, is more important than any other definition you want to give it. If you don't take the legal definition into account, then you aren't looking at the question of self defence and are just arguing over the semantics of the terms.
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traditional chinese saying:
speak much, wrong much |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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KarateEd
Black Belt
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 1020
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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bushido_man96,
While defending oneself from an attack does imply that the person is a victim (regardless of whether the perps succeed or not) I don't think the use of the term conditions one to feel like a victim. Additionally, I think with frequent and long term training, defense against an attack is not so much "reactionary" as "actionary." This may be splitting hairs, but it is my belief that "reaction" requires a certain amount of thought, which is what I train to remove. As Takuan Soho states, in his book The Unfettered Mind , thinking sends one's mind to the abiding place, hampering one's ability to perform efficiently in any situation. Also, I agree with mantis.style, a preemptive attack is still a defensive maneuver, albeit a very aggressive one.
Ed
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Ed |
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on the post.
