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ninjanurse
KF VIP
Joined: 13 Feb 2003
Posts: 6154
Location: Upstate NY
Styles: TKD;Shotokan;JuJitsu;Tai Ji
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 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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Agreed. Nothing mystical about it. Thanks for the great synopsis CTTKDKing!
_________________
"A Black Belt is only the beginning."
Heidi-A student of the arts
Tae Kwon Do,Shotokan,Ju Jitsu,Modern Arnis
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Medway Tai Chi Society
White Belt
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 6
Location: Kent, UK
Styles: Tai Chi Chuan
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:48 am Post subject: |
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Qi is simply an expression for energy. Not some mystical energy or anything like that. Simply the energy we get from eating food, from sleeping, from breathing...
If someone is said to have "weak qi", it simply means that they have low energy levels. This can come from poor diet, lack of sleep, lack of exercise etc etc...
If someone has "strong qi", they are in good health, "full of beans" as it were. They eat well, get enough sleep, keep healthy etc etc.
In terms of martial art:
Qi, as I say, is simply energy. Being fit and healthy, in good condition. 'Qi' is not directly used to fight an opponent. Your "energy" has to expressed in a certain way, and we call this "Jin" (not "jing", as this is 'essence', most commonly sperm in Daoist Alchemy practices). There are, obviously, different kinds of Jin (refined power) that produce different effects. IMO, none on these effects include 'no-touch' - unless you count psycological factoring, intimidating the opponent etc...
In terms of Dian Xue (dim mak):
Contrary to popular belief, this term does NOT mean "death touch".
Dian Xue roughly translates to 'cavity press', and refers to precision striking techniques, whereby a practitioner attacks the vital spots of the body, such as the temples, the nerves on the neck, the kidneys etc.. Some points from TCM are also included, although I have no experience regarding this, and have only anecdotal evidence that suggests these points are indeed valid, in terms of causing major damage to an opponent.
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~The health benefits of Tai Chi are derived from the martial practice, not the other way around~ |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| Medway Tai Chi Society wrote: |
Qi is simply an expression for energy. Not some mystical energy or anything like that. Simply the energy we get from eating food, from sleeping, from breathing...
If someone is said to have "weak qi", it simply means that they have low energy levels. This can come from poor diet, lack of sleep, lack of exercise etc etc...
If someone has "strong qi", they are in good health, "full of beans" as it were. They eat well, get enough sleep, keep healthy etc etc.
In terms of martial art:
Qi, as I say, is simply energy. Being fit and healthy, in good condition. 'Qi' is not directly used to fight an opponent. Your "energy" has to expressed in a certain way, and we call this "Jin" (not "jing", as this is 'essence', most commonly sperm in Daoist Alchemy practices). There are, obviously, different kinds of Jin (refined power) that produce different effects. IMO, none on these effects include 'no-touch' - unless you count psycological factoring, intimidating the opponent etc...
In terms of Dian Xue (dim mak):
Contrary to popular belief, this term does NOT mean "death touch".
Dian Xue roughly translates to 'cavity press', and refers to precision striking techniques, whereby a practitioner attacks the vital spots of the body, such as the temples, the nerves on the neck, the kidneys etc.. Some points from TCM are also included, although I have no experience regarding this, and have only anecdotal evidence that suggests these points are indeed valid, in terms of causing major damage to an opponent. |
A very solid post; I thank you for it!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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StrangeBacon
Orange Belt
Joined: 08 Jul 2010
Posts: 138
Location: England, UK
Styles: Shinkido-Tai Karate, Aikido, Kickboxing
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| Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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I believe in certain aspects of it, not the mystical stuff but more the energy channeling, our bodies are made up of energy, we run on it, we create it (heat ect), everything around us is some kind of energy.
It's how you use that energy that interests me, chi to me is simply one becoming adept at using and directing their body in order to create energy and force, after all power is just how efficiently the body can get from point A to point B in a strike for example.
Most of the other examples, in my opinion, are purely the power of positive thinking, if you want to believe something you will, and that can have some extremely profound effects.
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"Get beyond violence, yet learn to understand its ways"
"Seek peace in every moment, yet be prepared to defend your very being"
"Does the river dwell on how long it will take to become the ocean..." - Sensei Bruce Payne
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MartialStudy
White Belt
Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'm firmly in the camp that believes "qi" (or chi) simply means "energy", but I think it seems that we've missed the point that there are many forms of energy in western society. If I'm not mistaken, this is also the case in Eastern society, where energies such as gravity also exist and have been known about for many years.
As I've been taught, one of the first accurate translations of chi was by a French doctor who studied TCM in the 1900s, which was something along the lines of "vital energy" or "energy". Given his area of expertise, this was quite appropriate for arts such as acupuncture and Chinese herbalism.
This should be considered different to chi which flows through the meridians or breath. As mentioned already, one should also consider others such as chi of the earth (gravity). It's all about context really.
For me, there's no magic, just an understanding of how these energies work together and can be used to better an opponent. |
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dwarf2
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| I saw this post about chi and i have been involved in test done on the body with ekg and we had a volunteer get hit and we had a doctor there and we documented the effects on the body. It wasn't about energy it was that the nerve openings lead to the brain and when hit on points the brain made something happen somewhere else. I taught yang style long form to the public from 1992 until app. 2 years ago when i was in a bad car crash and i have plates and screws in my lower back. Everyone who came in my classes who said they had special chi power and all that i would ask them if we could test it and when we were done, we would have a understanding that you should leave magical stuff out of protecting yourself, learn stand up and get a ground game and i think a person will be ok . Some people may not agree with what i am saying but if your a instructor then your students being able to protect themselves should be what is important not waving your hands and your attacker falling down. |
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tonydee
Blue Belt
Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 253
Location: Japan
Styles: 24 yrs kong soo do, 3 yrs hapkido, bits of others
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| dwarf2 wrote: |
| I saw this post about chi and i have been involved in test done on the body with ekg and we had a volunteer get hit and we had a doctor there and we documented the effects on the body. It wasn't about energy it was that the nerve openings lead to the brain and when hit on points the brain made something happen somewhere else. |
While I personally am happy to tentatively accept that your tai chi's as real as it gets, it's still true that any explained examples of what might have been chi won't stop other people from saying their techniques are the ones using "real" chi in some distinct way that's not similarly explained. It's just one of those things that's can inherently never be disproved, though if real - and capable of clearly super-human results - then it could perhaps be proved.
| dwarf2 wrote: |
| I taught yang style long form to the public from 1992 until app. 2 years ago when i was in a bad car crash and i have plates and screws in my lower back. |
Sorry to hear about that. Are you at least able to keep practicing by yourself? If so, do you think it's actively helping your condition? It must be natural to turn to the health aspects of something you've clearly loved for so many years....
| dwarf2 wrote: |
| Everyone who came in my classes who said they had special chi power and all that i would ask them if we could test it and when we were done, we would have a understanding that you should leave magical stuff out of protecting yourself, learn stand up and get a ground game and i think a person will be ok . Some people may not agree with what i am saying but if your a instructor then your students being able to protect themselves should be what is important not waving your hands and your attacker falling down. |
That's sort of good, and sort of bad - hard to say without being there. I don't like people leading students astray, but I'm also aware that some skills and knowledge that are highly specialised and should be valued may happen to be present in someone who's not currently a well-rounded, able-bodied martial artist. Unless they have a bad attitude, it's nice to be a bit easy going and look for the positives while establishing the balance you speak of in a non-aggressive fashion. Maybe the same would go for you now - if you walked into a tai chi school and started gently offering some technical advice on posture during push hands, or breathing, it would be a savage overreaction for them to put you in some kind of a challenge situation (given your car accident). Not a win for either side. Establishing reality is essential, but with an open mind and generous spirit.
Cheers,
Tony |
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dwarf2
Yellow Belt
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| I've been trying to do tai chi but i have no rotation in my lower back at all and i no longer teach at all . I love the martial arts but i will never be able to do them again. In 1956 and 57 the sports committee of china gave the instructors a choice teach for us or you will not teach at all . The tai chi we see now is being taught by people who learned the state sponsored tai chi and they push a lot on chi were as the tai chi coming out of taiwan is different and the chi thing is not pushed but the study of the form was the main thing so a lot has changed ,one thing that has not changed is a punch in the nose is still a punch in the nose , chi or not i tell people don't let the religion thing get in the way of you getting a good stand up and good ground game because you might have to protect your family and your self, train like you might not get another chance . |
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tai Chi practice is a way to massage your internal organs. Also a way to help the flow of blood improving circulation. Could also be considered as a way to harmonize your mind body and spirit. Some say it is Yoga in motion. What many do agree on is that is a good thing. I'm always happy to see younger people practicing and sad to see older people sitting and watching them. Everything it is said can be explained with Yin Yang. I tend to believe it. Tai Chi is Yin Yang in motion. Every movement uses both the Yin Yang in a harmonious way. Creating a connection with the way of the universe. In doing so drawing energy in to your being in a natural way that cannot be attained with cash or credit cards. I'm just touching on this subject of Tai Chi and by no mean's am I an expert but some times a little knowledge can go a very long way |
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on the post.
