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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28004
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I don't understand why you don't see the importance of the topic. But, if it's not important to you, that's your prerogative. I can't make it be important to anyone.

As far as the opinion aspect goes, I don't recall presenting any opinions. I was presenting an article that discussed the two-factor model, and why and how it works in regards to all aspects of athletic endeavors, and presented it as a topic of discussion. You disagree; I can't convince you, so really, what else is there going forward? But I'm more than happy to discuss it further, trying to move forward in the discussion, and not into circles.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412


PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the best with this topic.
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Capella
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 06 Nov 2019
Posts: 4
Location: Germany
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I see it, training develops your body: strength, flexibility, endurance etc. Practice develops your brain by forming the neurological pathways to perform a movement in the most efficient way through repetition and variation. Actually, there are many stories of athletes who keep practicing in their head after being layed up with an injury by just imagining doing the movement.

Of course, under normal circumstances, you can never completely separate one from the other. When you begin weight training and start squatting, for examples, the first few times, squats will be terribly hard, not only because your muscles aren't that strong yet, but also because you just have not found the most efficient way to do the movement yet. So every exercise you do in training will also challenge your brain and therefore be "practice" (even though maybe not practice in the sport you want to become better in).

On the other hand, especially when you are starting out in a new sport or martial art, a lot of your practice will also be training, because you are using muscles which aren't that trained yet and the load will be enough to challenge them.

The longer you train and practice, the clearer the distinction will become.

Now, functional training has become popular mostly because it gives training a purpose if you have nothing to practice. Many people go to the gym because their doctor tells them to or because they feel generally unfit or they want to lose weight. But they have no specific sport in mind that they want to get better at. That's where functional training comes in. Just training your bodies abilities without coupling them to your brain in a usefull way is like tuning a car and then leave it in the garage because you can't drive.

So I'd say the two factor approach makes a lot of sense if you are an athlete training for a specific sport (or martial art). Functional training makes a lot of sense if you are trying to generally better your health and fitness without committing to a specific sport.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28004
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are interesting takes. You are correct that in the early ages of strength training, you are also practicing the movements. Hopefully, you have the eye of a qualified coach, or have done enough research to understand how to do the movements properly, that you aren't playing a guessing game as you go. That is not a safe way to strength train.

It is true that during training, you are practicing the movements. But I disagree that the first few times you go to the gym and squat that it should be "hard." The weight that is moved should be manageable, and doing enough work for the athlete to know how to do it right, rest and recover, and come back and add a little bit more weight the next session. It will get more difficult as the athlete goes along, but it gets harder as one gets stronger.

At any rate, that has more to do with the stress/recovery/adaptation cycle, which is worth it's own thread in it's own right.

Now, when it comes to TKD, my style of choice, I train TKD, and develop my skills in practice; i.e., at class, during solo sessions, etc. I make my body stronger for TKD through strength training, because strength is a general physical adaptation, and the most efficient way to develop it is through strength training.

I agree that you are correct about how people get caught up in functional training. They are told to exercise, but not really told what to do. And there is a difference between exercise and training.

Exercise is activity done for the immediate result that it produces today; be that just getting tired and sweaty, or to make the muscles "burn," or whatever. Training is done with a long-term goal in mind, the workouts of which are designed to produce that goal. In strength training, this is accomplished through programming.

I think the main problem with approaching strength training is that most people don't know how to approach it properly to reach those long-term goals. So instead, they end up trying different exercise or "functional" training, and may get strong to a point, but then don't know where to go from there.

My hope in posting the article is that it can help show the way to accomplish these goals.
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