The usefulness of kata.

Angus · Black Belt

Nah man, i pretty much agree with everything u said.

But u stated that the bunkai for the kata takes many uears to learn or something, that's why i don't enjoy it, cos it taked too long to do one thing. I'd rather learn one thing easily and proficiently and then move on to the next. I just don't see the point of using up all my time on one single thing.

Meh,
Angus

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Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear.

ronryu · Orange Belt

I understand you opinon and i have met many people with that same opinion . Coming from a traditional standpoint i have enjoy the contionious learning of technique in the kata not to mention the history of each movement there is jsut so much tolearn from the kata . However agin it isent for everyone i understand your point . But for me you caint have karate without kata .

_________________
Karate is not a sport , it is a way of life .
Sandan Motobu ha Shi-to ryu karate
Katsu ryu kempo
Ryukyu kobudo

The JKD Kid · Yellow Belt

I totally aggree, Kata's are no good. The only good thing you could get out of a kata, is the learned position of a block,or hand position. But in kata's your in a fixed positions, which will never happen in a fight. Now I can see learning a hand positions, and body structure, but kata's bind you up mentally, and are
Pre-determinend fight sceens. And an actual fight, you won't ever get that. You'll have to learn how to flow, and to react, not think, but just fight like you've trained. "I don't hit, IT hits all by its self"

[ This Message was edited by: The JKD Kid on 2001-12-16 21:02 ]

[ This Message was edited by: The JKD Kid on 2001-12-16 21:03 ]

BAS · White Belt

This is a prime example of confusion between a martial art and sport or a martial artist and one who plays games. Kata are the center of martial training they build spirit, timing, control, strength, and focus. Yes, sports are similar, however no sport places the ability of life and death of one person in the psychy of another. Training kata allows the individual to eliminate the self so that the world can be seen as it truly is; "Meet the Buddah, Kill the Buddah". The martial arts are just that, martial, ie. life and death. Its training is forever as are the kata. Every time a kata is practised the self becomes less and the kata becomes more. The spirit of the kata embodies all those who have trained before you. Maybe you should research the term mushin. Thank you.

Karateka · Red Belt

Maybe some people do kata for another reason. Not to calm themselves or to learn to fight, but because it is fun to them. Some people enjoy these things. That is one use of kata; enjoyment. Enjoy!

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"Never hit a man while he's down; kick him, its easier"

Sensei Ron Bagley (My Sensei)

Angus · Black Belt

Karateka - we've already established that point...

BAS - i don't understand ur viewpoint man... That's a nice piece of philosophy u wrote, but one bit is wrong. Kata isn't the centre of martial training - it's the centre of karate training. There's a difference. My martial training has consisted of everything but kata, which i consider to be time better spent on sparring.

Angus

_________________
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear.

SaiFightsMS · KF VIP

BAS I appreciate the way you stated that.

I very definately believe it was in kata where I began to regain control of myself.

thaiboxerken · Black Belt

I believe that kata is outdated and overlived. There were times when it was useful, like when martial arts were illegal. But today, I believe they are nothing more than exercises that keep the "mystique" of martial art alive. As for the "sport" martial art comment, people have to realize that the "sport" is merely a training method. There are many "sport" fighters that are very deadly outside of the ring. Also, many combat-oriented martial arts don't use "kata" and are extremely effective.

Kata is just another training method that usually ends up hurting more than helping, in my opinion. This is mostly because people don't even know what and why they are doing the kata movements. JKD kid is correct in that Kata tends to make a person more static in their fighting.

_________________
Just kick 'em, they'll understand.- Me
Apprentice Instructor under Guro Inosanto in Jun Fan Gung Fu and Filipinno Martial arts.
Certified Instructor of Frank Cucci's Linxx system of martial arts.

Singularity · Yellow Belt

As it usually ends up being with me, I agree with Angus and all the less traditional martial artists in this thread. The movements in a kata are very static and predetermined. I have never once dropped into a deep horse stance or any traditional stance in order to fight. I feel slower, akward, and like I'm training blindly when I do a kata. True, there were and are certain applications of different katas, but it's all so indirect. I train in martial arts for street self-defense first. I want to train in something that works now.

Don't get me wrong, katas are excellent for some people. Some do them because they enjoy them. Go for it, have fun. However, I have a strong belief that they are not essential when it comes to real fights. They don't allow for growth at times. Sure you can find out a few new things through a kata, but that is long and lumbering. I'll have discipline for it if I can see first hand how effective it is.

Luckily, I have found a way to fight that works for me. No katas or forms, but there are drills. And here's the kicker, they're with real people and have obvious applications. And if you disagree, fine, I have nothing against you or your art. As always, I could be way off.

Dave

Singularity · Yellow Belt

As it usually ends up being with me, I agree with Angus and all the less traditional martial artists in this thread. The movements in a kata are very static and predetermined. I have never once dropped into a deep horse stance or any traditional stance in order to fight. I feel slower, akward, and like I'm training blindly when I do a kata. True, there were and are certain applications of different katas, but it's all so indirect. I train in martial arts for street self-defense first. I want to train in something that works now.

Don't get me wrong, katas are excellent for some people. Some do them because they enjoy them. Go for it, have fun. However, I have a strong belief that they are not essential when it comes to real fights. They don't allow for growth at times. Sure you can find out a few new things through a kata, but that is long and lumbering. I'll have discipline for it if I can see first hand how effective it is.

Luckily, I have found a way to fight that works for me. No katas or forms, but there are drills. And here's the kicker, they're with real people and have obvious applications. And if you disagree, fine, I have nothing against you or your art. As always, I could be way off.

Dave

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