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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14806
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like, therefore, I don't buy all of the psyching before a break; just break the darn thing. You won't have time for psyching if attacked; defend yourself immediately.

You don't have time to warm up, psyche out, measure if attacked, so why do all of that unnecessary stuff before the break? It's not a 1 and a 2 and a 3...then...break...on the streets; purposeful attacks/defenses.

Boards DO hit back when you take FOREVER to break the darn things!!



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IcemanSK
Black Belt
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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Grandmaster was a huge fan of both breaking wood & "Heavy Breaks" (concrete & bricks), so it's part of our curiculum. My thought is that a lot of preparation (training specific things for One break) goes into breaking, rather than breaking ability being based on what one can do (or even break) due to their overall abilty as an MAist. Meaning, "I've trained so much with my right palm that I can break "X" number of bricks. But since I can't break that number with my left palm, it doesn't look as cool in a demo...so I only break with my right." Breaking is the best test when it's part of one's holistic training. Also, the test, "can you break a board with that technique?" Is a quick measure of the effectiveness of a technique. It weeds out the "this looks good on film, but not on the street" techniques a bit quicker.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28074
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points, Iceman, I agree. Its important to be able to perform breaking with both sides of the body.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14806
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
Good points, Iceman, I agree. Its important to be able to perform breaking with both sides of the body.

I wholeheartedly agree!! I had a rough time learning to hit effectively with my left side because I'm a righty through and through. Thanks to Sensei Takahashi, I learnt to be ambidextrous in the MA.



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Hawkmoon
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Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 891
Location: MK in the UK
Styles: Kyokushin

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A passing thought on this to add to the posts already made!

To break is a test ourselves, to test our mind and ability.

We fight to test our selves, breaking is no different to that!
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1765

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking boards, tiles or bricks is meant as a training exercise and nothing more. There is a correct way and a wrong way to do it just as for every single technique in martial arts. Injuries happen when there is the slightest mistake in technique, mechanics or other vital points. It is possible to break with power alone, but to strike efficiently without injuring oneself requires more than brute force.

Breaking is much less about destroying the boards or tile. It is about learning how to use one's body to its full potential efficiently without injuries. For what use is striking if one cannot do so without disabling oneself?
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2408
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Breaking boards, tiles or bricks is meant as a training exercise and nothing more. There is a correct way and a wrong way to do it just as for every single technique in martial arts. Injuries happen when there is the slightest mistake in technique, mechanics or other vital points. It is possible to break with power alone, but to strike efficiently without injuring oneself requires more than brute force.

Breaking is much less about destroying the boards or tile. It is about learning how to use one's body to its full potential efficiently without injuries. For what use is striking if one cannot do so without disabling oneself?


Very good point. Some make breaking an art within an art.

Speaking of this thread in general, it reminds me of an article I read about a decade or two ago. Written by a tai chi or Kung fu master, he stated that the only things he and his students break are coconuts. Coconuts are very close to hitting a human skull in his opinion. They start out kneeling on the ground, and hitting the coconut that's on the ground. They progress to holding the coconut with one hand and striking it with the other, then the final step is hanging it from a string and breaking it.

Punching and breaking a coconut freely hanging from a string takes some serious skill IMO. Power, speed, and technique. Maybe one of these days I'll try his progression. One of these days...
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The less bracing something has, the more difficult it becomes to break it without perfect synthesis of speed, power and body mechanics such as correct alignment and muscle tension.

When a board (tile or coconut etc) is held in place by hands or anything supporting it, it is braced on two sides and relatively easy to break. Even with poor form, it will break if enough force is used.

When suspended by a string there is only a very slight support. To break it requires much more emphasis on correct technique otherwise the power will not go through and bounce back into the striker.

Harder still is breaking something without any suspension. Such as when the object is thrown or dropped and broken in mid-air before falling to the ground. One who can do this has truly mastered their own body and has reached the level of spontanous form in their strikes.

Clearly if one has to psych themselves before breaking, there is much training before being able to do such a thing.
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DWx
KF Sensei
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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6214
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
The less bracing something has, the more difficult it becomes to break it without perfect synthesis of speed, power and body mechanics such as correct alignment and muscle tension.

When a board (tile or coconut etc) is held in place by hands or anything supporting it, it is braced on two sides and relatively easy to break. Even with poor form, it will break if enough force is used.

When suspended by a string there is only a very slight support. To break it requires much more emphasis on correct technique otherwise the power will not go through and bounce back into the striker.

Harder still is breaking something without any suspension. Such as when the object is thrown or dropped and broken in mid-air before falling to the ground. One who can do this has truly mastered their own body and has reached the level of spontanous form in their strikes.

Clearly if one has to psych themselves before breaking, there is much training before being able to do such a thing.

Whilst I agree with your points Spartacus, in my mind I still separate power breaks and speed breaks as two different skills. True that there is an obvious difference between one board supported and one board in free fall, but when you start increasing the boards on a suported break it becomes more about proper use of mass whereas the speed break you can't really throw any body weight behind it. For example a 5 board side kick relies on you fully commiting everything thing to the movement like a sledgehammer smashing through the target. You need mass too as speed alone won't break. But if you try that on an unsupported set of boards you'll just knock them out of the way as it's speed alone that's needed to slice through.
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Spartacus Maximus
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In some instances speed alone might work, in others power alone might work. However, the aim is not to break with one or the other but to have just enough speed AND power to go through the object one is breaking. That is what requires skill.
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