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Struggling_Mudansha
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Thin Shureido Sai Reply with quote

About a year and a half ago, the representative at Shureido USA asked me if I wanted to purchase regular 18 1/2" sai or their lightweight version. I was really puzzled at the choice they gave me so I went with the standard weight.

Ever since then, it's been eating away at me that I probably should of went with the lightweight because practically all we do with sai is kata. So lugging around such heavy weapons that were designed to take a beating seems kind of redundant.

Does anyone have any experience with thin/lightweight Shureido sai?
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it in terms of training, heavier sai definitely builds and conditions the hands and arms and this could be a benefit rather than a hindrance.

My Shinshii used to have heavy Rokushaku Bo that we would use to start out with. I hated it with a passion because of how cumber sum it was to use. You would be sore after each lesson. However it conditioned the body for it's use and built up muscles you didn't even know we had. Once we were able to start using the regular (I assume regulation) Rokushaku you could definitely tell the difference and your technique was much faster and powerful.

I'd look at it as a way to train the muscles. Get a lighter one after a year of use and you will see a huge difference and you will be able to use it as if an extension of your arm.

I have long arms so I use a longer sai than most. When ever I forget mine and borrow someone else's it's almost like they are not there. I'm much faster and more powerful.

This is a lesson I have taken into all of my training and it's helped me through the years. Like I said, it depends on how you choose to look at it.
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Struggling_Mudansha
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, I'm just an average joe shmoe who doesn't have the time (or all that much desire) to train to the point where heavy weapons condition my body. I had a pair Shureido kama and those things were monsters. They were so heavy that I couldn't properly manipulate them, so I switched to store bought kama.

I've also come to find out that heavy weapons will wreck my hands. Since I'm a musician, I can't afford to damage them as that is my lively hood.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Struggling_Mudansha wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm just an average joe shmoe who doesn't have the time (or all that much desire) to train to the point where heavy weapons condition my body. I had a pair Shureido kama and those things were monsters. They were so heavy that I couldn't properly manipulate them, so I switched to store bought kama.

I've also come to find out that heavy weapons will wreck my hands. Since I'm a musician, I can't afford to damage them as that is my lively hood.


Understood. It was a thought.

I know what you mean about Kama. I have a pair (have no idea who made them as they are 30+ years old) that are very thick and very heavy. They are like wielding two dumb bells. But for the same reason in the last post I love them. I have four other pair that are much easier to manage. One is a bit heavy due to more steel and less wood but all are a lot lighter than the original pair I bought so many years ago. I still use them but I am not a professional musician so I guess it never crossed my mind about damaging my hands.
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Struggling_Mudansha
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 61


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong, I actually love my Shureido sai and I enjoyed having that heavy pair of kama. Training with weapons like these make me feel like I'm really preserving the ways of Kobudo and it gives me an idea of what martial arts practitioners used back in the day. It just like I mentioned before though; I don't train with them enough to see the weight training benefits.

Also, in terms of dimensions, my Shureido sai cannot be beaten. I've tried Kensho International's stainless steel sai and they where far too light. I've also tried out a souvenir store brand pair of sai from the Ippon-Do store in Okinawa. The distance from the yoku to the monouchi were fairly narrow and they ended up hurting my thumbs on the manipulations.

So this is why I'm wondering about the thin Shureido sai. If the dimensions are the same but a lot of the bulk has been shaven off, that sounds like a good match for me. It's just that I have no way of trying them out and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
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Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Struggling_Mudansha wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I actually love my Shureido sai and I enjoyed having that heavy pair of kama. Training with weapons like these make me feel like I'm really preserving the ways of Kobudo and it gives me an idea of what martial arts practitioners used back in the day. It just like I mentioned before though; I don't train with them enough to see the weight training benefits.

Also, in terms of dimensions, my Shureido sai cannot be beaten. I've tried Kensho International's stainless steel sai and they where far too light. I've also tried out a souvenir store brand pair of sai from the Ippon-Do store in Okinawa. The distance from the yoku to the monouchi were fairly narrow and they ended up hurting my thumbs on the manipulations.

So this is why I'm wondering about the thin Shureido sai. If the dimensions are the same but a lot of the bulk has been shaven off, that sounds like a good match for me. It's just that I have no way of trying them out and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them.


I understand. Unfortunately I can't help you with this as I have never owned a Shureido light Sai.

Maybe you can call them to see if the dimensions are the same. It the dimensions and balance are the same I'd say go for it.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
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Harlan
Orange Belt
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts
Styles: Goju Ryu, Matayoshi kobudo, beginner

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of sai referred to as 'light vs heavy'. Which version would be 'light'?

http://www.shureidousa.com/kobudo/sai.html
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harlan wrote:
Never heard of sai referred to as 'light vs heavy'. Which version would be 'light'?

http://www.shureidousa.com/kobudo/sai.html


Not sure about that particular brand but I have steel Sai (combat worthy) and then I have Sai that I bought years ago (not sure of manufacturer) that are made of a lighter material most likely aluminum or pot metal of some sort. Not really sure because I've not cut into them to see. But I would not use them in full contact drills.

I know it doesn't necessarily answer your question but the material they are made from account for the weight.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14293
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know...I'm a pretty simple and boring Karateka because I just want the weapon in my hand to become part of my hand, no matter weight or size. For that, I can't offer much help here.



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Spartacus Maximus
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1709

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are quite a few people training in kobudo or other weapons systems who have or use two of each weapon. They have a standard version and training version which is heavier.

The idea of using a heavier version of a weapon to practise is shared by many weapons practicionners since very early in history. The idea is that a heavier weapon trains and strengthens the wielder’s body so that handling the “standard” weapon becomes easier. Full speed and power with the standard weapon and slower technique concentration work with the heavy version.
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