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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:34 am Post subject: Those Who Know and Those That Think They Know!! |
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You've been on the floor for quite some time, a significant amount of time, and a student/practitioner of the MA who's not been on the floor that long, and they start to voice their opinion(s) with the tone that they've been on the floor as long as you, if not longer than you.
I see this more from Kyu ranked students/practitioners, than I do from Dan ranks, even though, once in a while, once one earns a Shodan, they all of a sudden have much more knowledge and experience than you do.
How do you handle/deal it??
Me, well, depends on their attitude. If it's respectful, I say, out of the mouth of babes, and I smile. If it's not respectful, then I counsel them, if they're my student or a student of Shindokan. If the practitioner isn't one of my students or not a practitioner of Shindokan, I simply separate myself from them conversationally across the board; nothing can be gained.
After all, proof is on the floor...not in the spoken and/or written word(s)!!
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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Good question. I've experienced that a few times, and have probably been unintentionally guilty of it a few times too.
I personally like to say 'OK, let's see it your way', and then dissect it honestly, acknowledging good points, but showing bad points by demonstrating how they can be easily overcome. For example, if a takedown attempt has no effect on me, rather than smugly pointing out that their way didn't work, I like to explain why it didn't. Perhaps they were positioned a bit too far away, perhaps they didn't take my balance, perhaps they tried to force the strongest part of my arm etc.
But equally it's a tricky one because if a student resists a technique, there is a chance it won't work, in the context of safe training and demo. If I am demonstrating a takedown for example, and my opponent resists, I have two options. I can abandon the attempt, or I can add some realism of my own. The trouble with the former is it can result in you being undermined slightly. The trouble with the latter is if someone genuinely tries to make you fail, it takes a lot of control to find just the right balance of force to make it work but without causing injury, remembering that the technique being demonstrated might be designed to destroy several joints to immobilise the assailant, while in the training hall of course the goal is to make your friend go to the floor in a controlled way, able to get up again, bow, and continue training. |
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DWx
Black Belt
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6455
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'm really interested to see the responses on this one. Need some ideas on how to combat this myself.
Usually I just ignore as they will come undone at some point. Or if they persist, I tend to ask them to come out and demonstrate and try to show them they are not so clever.
For what it's worth illusory superiority is common right across all fields. People tend to think they're cleverer then they are or a better driver than everyone else or better at their job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
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"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Sensei8,
I am surprised that you would be having difficulties.
The answer is in you many, many posts. The proof is on the floor.
What they think they know and what they actually know comes out on the floor. Humility is often learned when attempting to be something of know something and then being allowed to prove it. It is the best teacher of humility.
Or an expression that my mother used often, give them enough rope...
Ask them to prove that they know more. Have them show you. It will definitely work itself out when they realize that their ego is bigger then their common sense. Problem solved.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:48 am Post subject: |
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I'm still a student (green belt, here!)
So... no, not too many folks have done that to me in TKD. But I've had it happen in the classroom when I'm teaching math. It can be frustrating to deal with in front of the class... Sometimes valuable teaching moments come from these occurrences. other times its best to deal with it privately.
_________________
5th Geup Jidokwan Tae Kwon Do/Hap Ki Do
(Never officially tested in aikido, iaido or kendo) |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| DWx wrote: |
I'm really interested to see the responses on this one. Need some ideas on how to combat this myself.
Usually I just ignore as they will come undone at some point. Or if they persist, I tend to ask them to come out and demonstrate and try to show them they are not so clever.
For what it's worth illusory superiority is common right across all fields. People tend to think they're cleverer then they are or a better driver than everyone else or better at their job https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority |
I agree, that it is seen across the board in many fields. I would tend to believe that this most often (but not always) manifests in the younger crowd, with the exuberance of youth. I think its quite common, even for youth to start challenging their parents. I think its the confidence that comes with being younger, stronger, and faster (in their physical prime) that causes them to overstep their bounds and believe they know more or know better than they actually let on.
I guess I'm fortunate in that we don't experience a whole lot of this at our school. In DT training, I see it show up at times. When questions are asked, usually in the form of "what if?", the system works well enough to answer those questions. In TKD classes, usually after time using the applications in class, the experience comes through and answers those questions.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16430
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Sensei8,
I am surprised that you would be having difficulties.
The answer is in you many, many posts. The proof is on the floor.
What they think they know and what they actually know comes out on the floor. Humility is often learned when attempting to be something of know something and then being allowed to prove it. It is the best teacher of humility.
Or an expression that my mother used often, give them enough rope...
Ask them to prove that they know more. Have them show you. It will definitely work itself out when they realize that their ego is bigger then their common sense. Problem solved. |
LOL!! No difficulties from me, at all!! I just wanted to start a conversation!! 
I giggle or frown, depending on the situation, whenever a Kyu ranked student assumes a position that they've no business or right to. Oftentimes, I don't have to be a witness for the floor because they have proven to me through a very short conversation with them what I suspected before; they've not the minimum of an idea what they're talking about.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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I figured as much.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| MatsuShinshii wrote: |
Sensei8,
I am surprised that you would be having difficulties.
The answer is in you many, many posts. The proof is on the floor.
What they think they know and what they actually know comes out on the floor. Humility is often learned when attempting to be something of know something and then being allowed to prove it. It is the best teacher of humility.
Or an expression that my mother used often, give them enough rope...
Ask them to prove that they know more. Have them show you. It will definitely work itself out when they realize that their ego is bigger then their common sense. Problem solved. |
LOL!! No difficulties from me, at all!! I just wanted to start a conversation!!
I giggle or frown, depending on the situation, whenever a Kyu ranked student assumes a position that they've no business or right to. Oftentimes, I don't have to be a witness for the floor because they have proven to me through a very short conversation with them what I suspected before; they've not the minimum of an idea what they're talking about.
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What was that old saying? The biggest threat to a black belt is his ego? |
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it is. In today's world, knowing ones capabilities and being honest about them is a rarity. Humility is not a common commodity today.
_________________
The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll |
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on the post.
