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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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 Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| JohnC wrote: |
| Unfortunately many attacks are NOT preceded by a lot of talking. Thus, the idea that one will have time to say things like "leave me alone" or even "stop" may not be a viable assumption. This idea is based in the assumption that altercations begin small and then escalate in a relatively smooth continuum. This is simply not true in many cases (especially when dealing with criminals and / or people drunk or on drugs). Hence again the idea of trigger points. |
Even if no talking takes place prior to any actions, if one can talk/yell during the altercation, stating the things I mentioned above, it can help one's cause.
This is something that we covered in a weapon retention/control class that I took in early 08. If your gun gets grabbed, you yell out "gun grab!" as loud as you can, as often as you can, so as to alert others around you to the circumstances of the situation. This kind of thing can be trained for scenarios as well.
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FitOrDie!
Yellow Belt
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: |
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It is true that in more cases than not of self defense, you are surprised, or have very little chance to throw the first punch. This is why training to instinctively react, or how to react in accordance with your flinching instincts, is so important.
But yea, if you know an attack is coming, I say take them out first. If you are in one of the stupid areas where the lawmakers make such actions illegal (as if that will dissuede an attacker), you can always say that he DID hit you, in the stomach or something.
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Increase work capacity over broad time and modal domains. Intensity is key.
Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price.
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mooseman25
White Belt
Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 1
Location: No place important
Styles: Goju
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think it depends on the situation. If you cant talk your way out and are forced to fight than if you should strike first is subjective.
However, the idea of letting them throw the first punch is that your going to let them strike at you, but not let them hit you. There are advantages to letting the other guy strike first. If your ready for it you can use that first punch to lock the guys punching arm and end the fight without having to resprt to beating on someone.
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You are your only opponent in karate and life. |
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Grego
Orange Belt
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 118
Styles: Chito-Ryu, US Army Combatives
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I definately want them to attack first, so I have some legal defense when I bust his face.
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Level II, US Army Combatives
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| mooseman25 wrote: |
However, the idea of letting them throw the first punch is that your going to let them strike at you, but not let them hit you. There are advantages to letting the other guy strike first. If your ready for it you can use that first punch to lock the guys punching arm and end the fight without having to resprt to beating on someone. |
I think that this is a common thought, but I don't think that it is a practical line of thinking. Why would one want to put oneself behind the eight-ball, and allow someone to strike first?
Here is a simple drill that anyone can try the next time you are at the dojo, or, even at home with someone that has no MA training at all:
The Towel Drill
1. Face your partner, and hang a towel from your shoulder, letting it drape down so that half of it is to your front and half to your back.
2. With your hands down at your sides, tell your partner to "attack" you by trying to take the towel off of your shoulder as fast as he can, without warning. Your goal is to try to stop it.
How did it work out? I've done the drill before, and I know that it is not easy to keep the towel from being taken. In fact, most of the time, the "attacker" ends up holding the towel.
3. Now, alter the drill a bit by putting your hands up in a fence position, and letting the "attacker" take the towel whenever he feels ready to try. Getting the hands up makes your defense quicker, for sure. But still, after analyzing the data, is it a chance that you want to take, to put oneself behind the reaction curve like that? Not me.
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joesteph
Black Belt
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 2753
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
Here is a simple drill that anyone can try the next time you are at the dojo, or, even at home with someone that has no MA training at all:
The Towel Drill
1. Face your partner, and hang a towel from your shoulder, letting it drape down so that half of it is to your front and half to your back.
2. With your hands down at your sides, tell your partner to "attack" you by trying to take the towel off of your shoulder as fast as he can, without warning. Your goal is to try to stop it.
How did it work out? I've done the drill before, and I know that it is not easy to keep the towel from being taken. In fact, most of the time, the "attacker" ends up holding the towel.
3. Now, alter the drill a bit by putting your hands up in a fence position, and letting the "attacker" take the towel whenever he feels ready to try. Getting the hands up makes your defense quicker, for sure. But still, after analyzing the data, is it a chance that you want to take, to put oneself behind the reaction curve like that? Not me.
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This is a good one, Brian. You know there's an "attack" coming, but you've still got a challenge. Your partner doesn't even have to be a martial artist and there are two levels of readiness. We say that when we're confronted by someone, that we should put our hands up, but it may be that he's not listening, so there's no pause for the hands to make that fence. All you have to do is blink, and then you find yourself on the floor.
This reminds me of "The Magnificent Seven," when Yul Brynner had his hands wide apart, and the young man in front of him was to draw his handgun, the idea being to beat Brynner's clapping his hands together. The younger one couldn't do it, but Brynner did when they switched.
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Vee Arnis Jitsu/JuJitsu |
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ShoriKid
Pre-Black Belt
Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 900
Styles: Matsubyashi-Ryu, Okinawan Kempo, wrestling, bits of BJJ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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It's a matter of awareness and judgement. If your not comfortable with the idea of striking first, don't. If you are and you think the situation warrents it, commit to the act.
For me, I'm on the side of striking first under certain circumstances. It's a matter of action being faster than reaction.
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Kisshu fushin, Oni te hotoke kokoro. A demon's hand, a saint's heart. -- Osensei Shoshin Nagamine |
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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There's also the option of shrieking and acting as though one had been struck while countering first, say with a front kick set to knock the kicker over.
Alternately, whimpering loudly things like "Don't hurt me! Don't punch me in the face!" while turning the face away fearfully, hands down and in position to react to a face punch.
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"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly." - Baleia |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30183
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| ShoriKid wrote: |
It's a matter of awareness and judgement. If your not comfortable with the idea of striking first, don't. If you are and you think the situation warrents it, commit to the act.
For me, I'm on the side of striking first under certain circumstances. It's a matter of action being faster than reaction. |
I agree on both accounts here. Your first poing, being comfortable with it, is important. If it is a tactic that one would consider, then it would be important to train for it, at least periodically.
| JusticeZero wrote: |
There's also the option of shrieking and acting as though one had been struck while countering first, say with a front kick set to knock the kicker over.
Alternately, whimpering loudly things like "Don't hurt me! Don't punch me in the face!" while turning the face away fearfully, hands down and in position to react to a face punch. |
I like this approach, too. Its a good way to seperate the mind from the body, so to speak; get the aggressor distracted, and also draw more attention to yourself and the situation. I don't know if I would try it all the time, but I am sure that there would be times that would warrant its usage.
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Otto
White Belt
Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 24
Styles: Many
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| Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Be a member of the 4H club.
Hit first,
Hit fast,
Hit hard
and Hit last. |
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on the post.
