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brickshooter
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 443


PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solid_Snake1211 wrote:
Your first move represents your style if you do aikido or this kinda MA you must w8 for the first strike


Actually, Aikidokas will pop the aggressor in the face first to force the aggressor to reach out and block. That blocking arm is now a free limb to manipulate and break.
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Rychi
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Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: England-Essex

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind the "let them throw a first punch" rule, doesn't mean you have to let them actually punch you, I'm sure we all have blocking, evading techniques, but obviously, if you knew it was going to happen, no point letting off the throttle at the start of the race huh
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datguy
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 29 May 2011
Posts: 91

Styles: Taekwondo, Judo, and Kickboxing.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you feel threatened and feel that you are in danger and you can't run away, let 'em have it! If you hesitate you risk getting knocked out or worse..
Too many people would rather get hurt than face possible legal issues involved with getting in a fight. I don't know about you guys/gals but Iwould much rather spend a while in jail than risk an eternity six feet under the ground.
That's not to say to go all out. Use some restraint. If somebody was trying to fight you for a parking space you obviously wouldn't fight as though you were attacked by a knife weilding thug.
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Shizentai
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 417

Styles: karate

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karate ni sente nashi.
"In karate there is no first attack."

No technique takes place in a timeless instant. All techniques require a certain amount of time to execute. Therefore, a "first attack" doesn't really exist. Any technique has two points: a beginning and an end. It doesn't matter who starts first. It only matters who completes it first.

Sometimes a person can begin an attack after his opponent and still hit him first. Sometimes a person can see what his opponent is about to do and stop him just as he is about to move. Who is to say who was first?

My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter.
If you are a responsible martial artist who can put a fight to a peaceful and swift end, then that is all that counts.
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JusticeZero
Black Belt
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Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: AK
Styles: Capoeira Angola

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True... though I think it's the beginning of the attack that is at issue, not the end.

That said, does something like shying back, holding your hands to block in a way that leaves your face wide open and calling out 'Don't hurt me, don't hit me in the face!' so that you can set up a counter to a punch to the face count as an attack?
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28209
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
True... though I think it's the beginning of the attack that is at issue, not the end.

That said, does something like shying back, holding your hands to block in a way that leaves your face wide open and calling out 'Don't hurt me, don't hit me in the face!' so that you can set up a counter to a punch to the face count as an attack?
I'd call that a bait. I guess by giving them an opportunity, you still remain the one being attacked; although a foolish idea, I think. Anybody can get lucky, and I know my luck is terrible as it is, so I wouldn't try anything like that. I'm not saying you would either, but I see what you are getting at here, as well.
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SavageOne
White Belt
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Joined: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Fiji

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, while you can talk some "thugs" down. But I always throw first if I feel I am risk.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14983
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I don't think that there's a right/wrong answer to this. It's what one feels at that moment. Whether ones actions are against the law; that's for the LEO's and the DA and the judge.

Again..."He who hesitates, meditates horizontally!"~Ed Parker


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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28209
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
You know, I don't think that there's a right/wrong answer to this. It's what one feels at that moment. Whether ones actions are against the law; that's for the LEO's and the DA and the judge.

Again..."He who hesitates, meditates horizontally!"~Ed Parker



I agree with your comment above, Bob, and wanted to bring attention to the section I highlighted in bold. Remember what it was that made that "feeling" of impending danger pop up, and make sure you can figure out a way to articulate it. This is where most people fail, I think. They get tangled in the adrenaline of the moment, and then when its over, don't think about how they will explain what happened, why they did what they did, and what lead them to believe that if they didn't act first, that they were going to be in danger. A few examples to illustrate:

1. "He called my momma a blankety-blank, so I busted his face!"

This, is likely going to get you put in jail. Not a good way to justify striking someone.

2. "It was really loud in the bar, and I saw a friend of mine, so I hollered at him to get his attention. This other gentleman thought I was yelling at him, so he came over to me and started yelling at me. I apologized to him, and told him I was trying to get my friend's attention, but he wouldn't listen to me, and said 'you'd better hope your friend gets here soon.' I was backed against the wall, and he swithced his drink from his right hand to his left. I couldn't get away, so I took action and struck him first, because I was afraid he was going to hit me while I was cornered. After he fell down, I got away from him and then let the bouncers know what happened."

Obviously, this is a much better articulation of why you fealt the need to strike someone in self-defense before the other person struck you. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean you won't end up with some kind of reprimand, but, it does paint you in a much better light, and shows indicators of why you took the initiative. After that, finding witnesses that can propogate your side of the events becomes beneficial, as well. But, my point is that if you get that "feeling," take some time to address the why's after the fact.
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sensei8
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14983
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
You know, I don't think that there's a right/wrong answer to this. It's what one feels at that moment. Whether ones actions are against the law; that's for the LEO's and the DA and the judge.

Again..."He who hesitates, meditates horizontally!"~Ed Parker



I agree with your comment above, Bob, and wanted to bring attention to the section I highlighted in bold. Remember what it was that made that "feeling" of impending danger pop up, and make sure you can figure out a way to articulate it. This is where most people fail, I think. They get tangled in the adrenaline of the moment, and then when its over, don't think about how they will explain what happened, why they did what they did, and what lead them to believe that if they didn't act first, that they were going to be in danger. A few examples to illustrate:

1. "He called my momma a blankety-blank, so I busted his face!"

This, is likely going to get you put in jail. Not a good way to justify striking someone.

2. "It was really loud in the bar, and I saw a friend of mine, so I hollered at him to get his attention. This other gentleman thought I was yelling at him, so he came over to me and started yelling at me. I apologized to him, and told him I was trying to get my friend's attention, but he wouldn't listen to me, and said 'you'd better hope your friend gets here soon.' I was backed against the wall, and he swithced his drink from his right hand to his left. I couldn't get away, so I took action and struck him first, because I was afraid he was going to hit me while I was cornered. After he fell down, I got away from him and then let the bouncers know what happened."

Obviously, this is a much better articulation of why you fealt the need to strike someone in self-defense before the other person struck you. Now, this doesn't necessarily mean you won't end up with some kind of reprimand, but, it does paint you in a much better light, and shows indicators of why you took the initiative. After that, finding witnesses that can propogate your side of the events becomes beneficial, as well. But, my point is that if you get that "feeling," take some time to address the why's after the fact.

A very very solid post Brian!!


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