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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
XtremeTrainer wrote:
OneKickWonder wrote:
Unless the person that trains 3 times a week is unable to recover fast enough, so cumulatively and gradually they become more damaged and less fit.

The person that trains 3 times a week AND realises that giving 100% means paying attention to the often overlooked details like breathing, posture etc and signals coming from the body, will indeed progress faster than the person training twice. However, the person that trains diligently twice a week will progress faster than a person that pushes their physical limit 3 times a week without focusing on the details.


Well as I said in my first post, if all other factors are equal. If all other factors are equal the person training 3 times a week will progress faster than the person training 2 times a week.




No. Not necessarily.

If two people are identical in every way, and have identical lifestyle diet etc, we could assume they will have identical recovery rate.

Every time we do any form of physical training, we actually injure our muscles. I don't mean as in properly hurt ourselves, I mean that to stimulate the process of strengthening muscles, we have to work those muscles to the point were some muscle fibres become physically damaged. When this happens, the damaged muscle is actually weaker than it was before, because you've just worked it to its limit and damaged it. That sounds bad, but as long as you don't go too far, it's perfectly normal.

Different people have different recovery rates. The recovery rate could be plotted on a graph as strength over time following exercise. In that case, you'd see strength fall immediately after exercise, then gradually rise again. If you never exercise again, at some point the line would reach the level it was at immediately before you did exercise. Shortly after, it would rise further, at which point you are fitter and stronger than before the exercise. If you continued to rest for even longer, the line would start going downhill again as the muscle begins to atrophy.

The point at which the line on our graph returns to the pre exercise level is our recovery rate. For some people, it might be as short as 24 hours. For others it could be as long as 10 days.

Now let's say for our two identical martial artists, it turns out that recovery rate is 2 days. Then you're right. The one that trains 3 times a week will progress faster.

Now let's say their recovery rate is ever so slightly longer, at 3 days. That's not unrealistic. Now the person that trains 3 times a week needs to somehow fit a total of 9 days recovery time into a 7 day week. It can't be done, so they gradually burn out through over training. Our 2 day a week person on the other hand only has to fit a total of 6 days recovery into a 7 day week. That works, so he gradually becomes fitter and stronger and more able.


You do have a point there. It is possible to overdo it and train too hard and too often so that you don't make a good enough recovery in between training sessions in which case you get diminishing returns and your over training becomes detrimental. But somebody who trains for an hour Monday, Wednesday, and Friday vs somebody who only trains Monday and Friday, for most people taking one day off in between training sessions, especially when its only for an hour during your training days, should be adequate. Also, much of the martial arts is not physical. Much of the martial arts is mental and there's also intellectual knowledge that you build up as you learn martial arts. Such stuff does not require the kind of recovery time that physical training does.
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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
I tell my students all the time regarding study time:

Quality > Quantity


I agree but as I said, if all other factors are equal. So if you got two people training and their training is of equal quality the one with more quantity will progress faster.

Now as I said I do agree that quality is more effective than quantity, but what I believe is most effective is to have both.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27542
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XtremeTrainer wrote:
singularity6 wrote:
I tell my students all the time regarding study time:

Quality > Quantity


I agree but as I said, if all other factors are equal. So if you got two people training and their training is of equal quality the one with more quantity will progress faster.

Now as I said I do agree that quality is more effective than quantity, but what I believe is most effective is to have both.
If you have the time, train more. Pretty simple.
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www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
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XtremeTrainer
Yellow Belt
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Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 89


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen some martial arts schools that have what they call the Black Belt Club. Not all students are in the club but the way it works is like this, if you're in the Black Belt Club you would come in more often to train and sometimes you would stay longer and keep training when other students who were not in the club would leave. The idea is that you would get a black belt faster than students who were not in the club. The tradeoff was that you had to work harder and put more time into it.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2018


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professional fighters train about 6 to 7 hours a day, while recreational Maoists train about 7 hours a week.

So roughly, what a professional fighter does in 1 day the recreational Maoist does in a week.

While the professional is focused on training to hurt the opponent and expecting to get hit back for money, while the recreational Maoist might not be completely sure about this aspect, as there are many reasons, morally, ethically and legally to consider, also the sporting aspects of competition and getting hurt in the process, are not for everyone, as self defence might be the main reason for signing up in a class and not having much to do with being physically fit.

Therefore it is the "Intent" that needs to be something that needs to be understood for the student, to have a clearer understanding of what all the training routines are for.

A person that want to fight professionally will need to step up to the many challenge ahead, whilst the Maoist recreationalist can be as committed as more or less that is necessary for that individual.

Sorry in advance for saying this, but training professionally and recreationally are two very different things, this is why when one meets the other, the fight ends very quickly.

Point being, training professionally doesn't usually happen in a recreational environment.

Concluding that professional training is intense due to the need for conditioning, with a high level of fitness and buckets of stamina is required, whereas the recreational Maoist would most likely not survive the punishment, that is done on a daily basis, to become a human weapon, therefore the watered down version and less hours training is more common than not, point being 1 hour of professional training doesn't equal 1 hour of recreation training of which most Maoists do.
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