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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2128


PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Training With Weights For Martial Artists? Reply with quote

Personally I use weights machine and free weights for my martial art betterment, also using rubber bands and whatever else is available.

There are however many others that don't use weights that believe that this will not be helpful therefore avoid any type of exercise that involves using weights.

Perhaps what I might do differently, is to have in mind to incorporate weights towards strengthening my techniques as much as possible and not just for fitness or strength sake alone.

As having the time and availability to use many types of exercises equipment, it would be a shame not to take advantage of this opportunity, to explore and experiment with them as much as possible.

Would you like to incorporate weights and machines in to your martial art journey and wonder how and where to start?

Or maybe you're going it alone without weights and machines and being reliant on oneself alone, which is perfectly possible and acceptable.

So the question is where do you stand using weights or not for your martial art betterment, or maybe you stand somewhere between the two?
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mushybees
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 196
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I started training in karate my instructor at the time had a very poor opinion of weight training. I only have experience of japanese martial arts but it's an attitude I've witnessed quite often.

In my case I developed a lot of muscle imbalances, especially in the legs and shoulders which manifested in tennis elbow and the paletta not tracking correctly.
All fixed in six months of compound weight exercises.
I weight train now at least twice a week for 40 minutes. Not for hypertrophy but for strong and balanced muscles.

We don't practise any hojo undo and I'm quite ignorant on the matter but if I was told it was incorporated to prevent against the problems I faced I wouldn't be surprised.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14268
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use weights all of the time, and even more so as I age. We were introduced to train with when I was a JBB at 13 years of age. Before long, training with weights became a staple in my training, which meant that I introduced weight training to my students ever since day one at my own dojo in 1977.



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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just donít get the whole resistance to weight training. I honestly feel like itís used as an excuse not to do it more than anything else. Thereís just zero logic in saying a stronger and fitter MAist isnít a better MAist when all else is equal.

Of course technique is a huge part of power. And having perfect technique doesnít mean anything if you canít hit your target. But if youíre capable of great technique, timing, and connecting cleanly with your target, more strength will only make you hit even harder.

Same goes for grappling. Being stronger will enhance your effectiveness.
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tubby
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 50


PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

quite happy doing 2 days at the gym 90% on free weights. The limitations I put on that training are mainly to avoid being exhausted from leg day before TKD training. but this is all focused on training established movements, I expect many who think weight training is bad make the mistake of trying to add weight and replicating their MA movements which is a great way to injure yourself.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1703

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martial arts requires strength for stability and power. Machines are mostly suited for isolation exercises best suited for bodybuilding rather than working functional or core strength. Martial arts practitioners can benefit more from free weights or body weight exercises that work a maximum of muscles at a time.

Many martial arts systems and techniques generate power from the core and lower body/legs. Focusing on overall strength and endurance is the best approach for practicality and application.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartacus Maximus wrote:
Martial arts requires strength for stability and power. Machines are mostly suited for isolation exercises best suited for bodybuilding rather than working functional or core strength. Martial arts practitioners can benefit more from free weights or body weight exercises that work a maximum of muscles at a time.

Many martial arts systems and techniques generate power from the core and lower body/legs. Focusing on overall strength and endurance is the best approach for practicality and application.


Bodybuilders use very few machines. Theyíll use one to isolate a muscle when necessary, but they pretty much despise the machines. Machines are best used for rehab purposes when thereís a specific deficit the patient has and that specific movement and/or muscle needs targeting.

Most people who use machines are casual weightlifters, people who are just getting started, or elderly people rather than serious lifters.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
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Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martial artists have lifted weights throughout the MAs existence. They didnít use dumbbell, barbells, et al in the beginning; they lifted and/or carried stones, jars filled with various materials, weighted sticks, etc. There are countless pictures and drawings depicting MAists from all styles and regions doing this. Anyone who says lifting weights is bad for a MAist either has no clue what theyíre talking about, no clue what theyíre doing, or is just too lazy and is making excuses.

I understand and agree with the concept of donít get so big that you canít move properly, but letís be serious; 99% of the people out there canít get Incredible Hulk big even if they wanted to.

Most pro athletes are quite big (and strong). They donít have issues moving.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27636
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR 137 wrote:
I just donít get the whole resistance to weight training. I honestly feel like itís used as an excuse not to do it more than anything else. Thereís just zero logic in saying a stronger and fitter MAist isnít a better MAist when all else is equal.

Of course technique is a huge part of power. And having perfect technique doesnít mean anything if you canít hit your target. But if youíre capable of great technique, timing, and connecting cleanly with your target, more strength will only make you hit even harder.

Same goes for grappling. Being stronger will enhance your effectiveness.


I agree. I know instructors who used to say that lifting weights would slow you down and kill your flexibility. "Bulking up" would make you slow and plodding. Not stretching kills your flexibility, not strong muscles. I can't think of any downsides to getting bigger and stronger.

Then there is the school of thought that a Martial Artist should only weight train using motions they use in class; like using pulley systems to do weighted punching motions, or to stretch the legs and do kicking motions with bands tied to the ankles. Or, the most perpetuated fallacy I think I've heard throughout my MA career as far as weight training goes, was to "lift lighter weights for higher reps, to increase muscle endurance," or that lifting that way would "make you faster."

The fact of the matter is that Martial Artists can reap the same benefits from doing full body, core barbell lifts (squat, deadlift, bench press, press, power clean and power snatch) as many other athletes do. These exercises strengthen the body using the body as it was intended to be used, all together, through a full range of motion.

And I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, "Geez, I wish I wasn't so damn strong...."
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2332
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bushido_man96 wrote:
JR 137 wrote:
I just donít get the whole resistance to weight training. I honestly feel like itís used as an excuse not to do it more than anything else. Thereís just zero logic in saying a stronger and fitter MAist isnít a better MAist when all else is equal.

Of course technique is a huge part of power. And having perfect technique doesnít mean anything if you canít hit your target. But if youíre capable of great technique, timing, and connecting cleanly with your target, more strength will only make you hit even harder.

Same goes for grappling. Being stronger will enhance your effectiveness.


I agree. I know instructors who used to say that lifting weights would slow you down and kill your flexibility. "Bulking up" would make you slow and plodding. Not stretching kills your flexibility, not strong muscles. I can't think of any downsides to getting bigger and stronger.

Then there is the school of thought that a Martial Artist should only weight train using motions they use in class; like using pulley systems to do weighted punching motions, or to stretch the legs and do kicking motions with bands tied to the ankles. Or, the most perpetuated fallacy I think I've heard throughout my MA career as far as weight training goes, was to "lift lighter weights for higher reps, to increase muscle endurance," or that lifting that way would "make you faster."

The fact of the matter is that Martial Artists can reap the same benefits from doing full body, core barbell lifts (squat, deadlift, bench press, press, power clean and power snatch) as many other athletes do. These exercises strengthen the body using the body as it was intended to be used, all together, through a full range of motion.

And I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, "Geez, I wish I wasn't so damn strong...."


No one ever said they thought they were too strong. Or in too good of cardio shape.
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