Add KarateForums.com
Five Years on Staff! JR 137 and Nidan Melbourne
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Pro Fighting Matches and Leagues
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 475
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to disagree that Rousey has no stand up game. Judo teaches grip fighting which for Rousey has translated into a very strong striking game at punching reach. Her main issue is that, as pointed out in the article, she has never learnt to cut the angles like a boxer or kick-boxer, and goes straight forward to get into her strong range. Also, she has the Judo attacking habit of leading with a dominant hand; which in the striking game has lead to her having a noticeable habit of leaving her left side vulnerable, plus she has never really learnt to strike except as an opening for her favoured range. Furthermore, she has never learnt to use the cage; an integral skill for a top level MMA player and Holm coming from a boxing back-ground, which uses a ring has more readily adapted her existing barrier awareness.

Plus, Rousey has beaten decent stand up fighters prior to this point; though as far as I know Holm is the first former champion from another combat sport she has fought. I do not think Rousey has fought paper tigers up until now, but Holm was definitely an elite striker before finding her way into the UFC. This, I suspect was what clinched the deal. Rousey was an Olympian and she is still a phenomenal MMA player even with this defeat. She dealt with Olympic disappointment, and came back to be an elite player in MMA; she can do it again.

Against others I have not been bothered by Rousey’s smack talk as it were. Most of her opponents have talked it back, and that is the general trend in MMA. It is a reason I am not an MMA fan, as it has become a professional sport and taken on the nature of professional sports. However, against Holm I have found it rather distasteful, as Holm come across as very humble and has largely credited her training team and has not at all downplayed Rousey’s ability. This difference in attitude is also a factor in why I feel Holm defeated Rousey. Holm was a professional boxer, and has faced defeat before; and she is also in her 30s. She has treated this fight as just another day in the office and it has shown in her demeanour in the fight. She was not afraid of Rousey, and did not let any emotional baggage colour her approach. Rousey has, via the smack talk, and not getting the expected reaction let this different psychology affect her. Holm had won the battle of psychologies going into the fight.

I think a Cyborg-Rousey fight could still happen, but I fear that such a fight would have and could go the way the Holm-Rousey fight went. Cyborg is a much more dominant in finishing than Holm. Cyborg is in a heavier weight-class, but it does not bode well for Rousey in a match up between the two, were the Rousey we saw in the cage against Holm the same Rousey to get in the cage with Cyborg.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15327
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
I would have to disagree that Rousey has no stand up game. Judo teaches grip fighting which for Rousey has translated into a very strong striking game at punching reach. Her main issue is that, as pointed out in the article, she has never learnt to cut the angles like a boxer or kick-boxer, and goes straight forward to get into her strong range. Also, she has the Judo attacking habit of leading with a dominant hand; which in the striking game has lead to her having a noticeable habit of leaving her left side vulnerable, plus she has never really learnt to strike except as an opening for her favoured range. Furthermore, she has never learnt to use the cage; an integral skill for a top level MMA player and Holm coming from a boxing back-ground, which uses a ring has more readily adapted her existing barrier awareness.

Plus, Rousey has beaten decent stand up fighters prior to this point; though as far as I know Holm is the first former champion from another combat sport she has fought. I do not think Rousey has fought paper tigers up until now, but Holm was definitely an elite striker before finding her way into the UFC. This, I suspect was what clinched the deal. Rousey was an Olympian and she is still a phenomenal MMA player even with this defeat. She dealt with Olympic disappointment, and came back to be an elite player in MMA; she can do it again.

Against others I have not been bothered by Rousey’s smack talk as it were. Most of her opponents have talked it back, and that is the general trend in MMA. It is a reason I am not an MMA fan, as it has become a professional sport and taken on the nature of professional sports. However, against Holm I have found it rather distasteful, as Holm come across as very humble and has largely credited her training team and has not at all downplayed Rousey’s ability. This difference in attitude is also a factor in why I feel Holm defeated Rousey. Holm was a professional boxer, and has faced defeat before; and she is also in her 30s. She has treated this fight as just another day in the office and it has shown in her demeanour in the fight. She was not afraid of Rousey, and did not let any emotional baggage colour her approach. Rousey has, via the smack talk, and not getting the expected reaction let this different psychology affect her. Holm had won the battle of psychologies going into the fight.

I think a Cyborg-Rousey fight could still happen, but I fear that such a fight would have and could go the way the Holm-Rousey fight went. Cyborg is a much more dominant in finishing than Holm. Cyborg is in a heavier weight-class, but it does not bode well for Rousey in a match up between the two, were the Rousey we saw in the cage against Holm the same Rousey to get in the cage with Cyborg.

Solid post!!

This, imho, was an upset. Not like when Buster Douglas KO'd Mike Tyson, but an upset, nonetheless. May the best fighter win, and in their fight, Holm won. Can't win them all of the time!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

jaypo
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 26 Apr 2012
Posts: 520

Styles: Shotokan, Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've disliked Rousey from day 1. A woman that has spent her life mastering a respectful art like Judo is constantly degrading, verbally abusing, and "bullying" people. What I found to be poetic justice is that the first opponent that refused to be bullied is the one that almost took her head off!

If you watched her disrespectful actions at the weigh ins where she tried to intimidate Holm and pulled her fist into her own face, then tried to play the victim, that was the kind of classless stuff that Ronda has been doing since day 1. Then she goes on a verbal tirade about Holm being "fake" and hurled insults at her. When I saw Holly's face and that she was stone faced after Rousey's attempt to get in her head, I knew Holly was going to win. She was the first opponent that wasn't beaten before stepping the cage with Rousey.

Rousey has only fought people that were much smaller than her. She fought previously at 145lbs, but dropped to 135 to, IMHO, avoid having to fight Cyborg. Now, she criticizes Cyborg's appearance constantly and insists that Cyborg, who fights in the same weight class Rousey used to fight in, move down in weight to fight her. I think Rousey, more than ever now, realizes that she'd get destroyed by Cyborg the way she got destroyed by Holm. Her striking game is putrid, and it's now evident that if she can't bully and overpower her opponent, she will gas and lose. And I love every minute of it!
_________________
Seek Perfection of Character
Be Faithful
Endeavor
Respect others
Refrain from violent behavior.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

126barnes
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 29 Oct 2015
Posts: 46
Location: Canada
Styles: Kenpo Karate

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a fan of RR outside the octagon, But I like her inside after the bell sounds.

Seemed like RR was more hyped up than usual, which didn't help her in this situation.

Holmes made her pay for her mistakes coming forward without working for it. I think Holmes was near perfect, we'll see what happens next time.

If there is a next time, I'm sure RR won't do that again. There will be more feeling each other out and will probably be a boring first round or maybe the whole fight. More of a cat and mouse fight instead of bull vs bull fighter.

Not sure how that will work out, do you favor a KO or SUB in a battle of minimal mistakes. Even thou Holme's striking was entertaining and proved deadly, I'd put my money on RR and the SUB.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 475
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rousey is the master of the fast finish; Holm was a 12-round Boxing Champion. In a round set up I do not think Rousey will want to go the distance as she could just give it to Holm by virtue of a judges' decision. I do not think Rousey can catch up with Holm in the striking department; unless she waits out the rematch for a couple of years, and lets time and age take away some of Holm's sting. What Rousey needs to practice in the mean time, is avoiding the mistake of lining her self-up with Holm's left; she needs to learn to cut the angles and stalk Holm. Rousey did not use the cage well, or have any awareness of where Holm's feet were and it showed. I feel the match was competitive, and that Holm was in danger a couple of times, but Rousey was making unforced mistakes in terms of her basic technique. It was boxing incompetency; she did not know what she did not know, and so did not correct how she was entering Holm's guard. How Rousey was knocked out was also an unforced error in how she tried to turn on the spot to face Holm; she should have have created distance before turning.

Rousey is not a bad boxer; she is in fact very good. However, the differences in skill are like those between a great amateur boxer, and a good professional boxer. I do not think anything but time and practice can mitigate the difference in skill. A new strategy will not help Rousey; she needs to cover the weakness in her extant game; which is lack of cage control, and perhaps psychology. She did not know how to face down an opponent who was unafraid of her clinch.

If Rousey overcomes those weaknesses in her game, she can defeat Holm. An immediate rematch; I have to give it to Holm, though perhaps with a judges' decision instead of a finish. If Rousey learns those lessons, waits a couple of years; faces another opponent or two before taking on Holm so as to work off any cage-rust, I give it to Rousey via submission. In her mid thirties already, age and time is against Holm for a professional fighter. In terms of technical skill she is at an elite level, and time will not take those skills away; what it might take away is speed and power. The combination of Holm's greater hand-speed, punching-power, and superior skills are what allowed her to keep Rousey from clinching. Take away that edge in speed and power through age, it might be a different story.

However; who knows. Tate might finally get a fair showing of her actual skills, or some of the others in the otherwise shallow division with Rousey away. If Rousey spends too much time away; she might be walking back into a whole different division. I am not an MMA fan, and I do not like what seems like a kicking Rousey while she's down habit in the media right now, but one advantage is that the division might actually get some of the spot light rather than just one fighter.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

mazzybear
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 30 Oct 2013
Posts: 675
Location: Scotland.
Styles: Wado Kai

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
However; who knows. Tate might finally get a fair showing of her actual skills, or some of the others in the otherwise shallow division with Rousey away. If Rousey spends too much time away; she might be walking back into a whole different division. I am not an MMA fan, and I do not like what seems like a kicking Rousey while she's down habit in the media right now, but one advantage is that the division might actually get some of the spot light rather than just one fighter.


I think that was always going to happen though, especially with the disrespect she shows to her opponents and the whole "I'm unbeatable" speil, it left her wide open for the media to crucify her. The same thing will happen to Connor McGregor next month should Jose Aldo beat him. Their over inflated egos really grate on a lot of people, so when they get beat, people's/media's smugness will come out play.


Mo.
_________________
Be water, my friend.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28799
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to watch MMA. I don't like to watch pre and post fight interviews. If we did away with all that, I think the fights would be much more fun to watch.

But, Rousey said a long time ago she didn't mind playing the heel. A big part of the fight game is the mental game they play, too, and so we have the face offs and the disrespectfulness.

That said, I think the rematch will be a much better fight. Rousey is a competitor, and this will drive her to get better. Watch her stand-up improve.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 475
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazzybear wrote:
I think that was always going to happen though, especially with the disrespect she shows to her opponents and the whole "I'm unbeatable" speil, it left her wide open for the media to crucify her. The same thing will happen to Connor McGregor next month should Jose Aldo beat him. Their over inflated egos really grate on a lot of people, so when they get beat, people's/media's smugness will come out play.


Mo.


A fair comment, and I cannot argue with it. I think a lot of the criticism has been justified in terms of how Rousey has held herself through out her fight career. What I dislike is the more vitriolic stuff; things said by people who have never stepped near a cage, never mind a gym or dojo, who seem to be taking some strange personal relish from the moment. That is what I take issue with, and it is not just in Rousey's case, it is in many cases. However, sadly that is a part of the entertainment aspect; people enjoy seeing a fall. I never have, but it is just a difference in people.

I would like to see Rousey try and win a rematch; I think she has far too much potential to stop now. However, I would not blame her for going into Hollywood full time, or even making a move over to WWE on some part-time contract. She has the name, and the natural athleticism, I think she could argue what a contract should involve even with the legendarily hard-headed McMahon.

Right now; I am more interested in seeing Holm fight someone else. Give Holm a chance to establish some dominance over the division; wait until the time is right to say the only person left to fight is Rousey again. I think Rousey will need another fight or two after recovery to throw off any cage-rust, and to test and expand on the lessons her match with Holm showed up. An immediate rematch does neither fighter any favours, except perhaps putting a lot of money in their pockets.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15327
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
mazzybear wrote:
I think that was always going to happen though, especially with the disrespect she shows to her opponents and the whole "I'm unbeatable" speil, it left her wide open for the media to crucify her. The same thing will happen to Connor McGregor next month should Jose Aldo beat him. Their over inflated egos really grate on a lot of people, so when they get beat, people's/media's smugness will come out play.


Mo.


A fair comment, and I cannot argue with it. I think a lot of the criticism has been justified in terms of how Rousey has held herself through out her fight career. What I dislike is the more vitriolic stuff; things said by people who have never stepped near a cage, never mind a gym or dojo, who seem to be taking some strange personal relish from the moment. That is what I take issue with, and it is not just in Rousey's case, it is in many cases. However, sadly that is a part of the entertainment aspect; people enjoy seeing a fall. I never have, but it is just a difference in people.

I would like to see Rousey try and win a rematch; I think she has far too much potential to stop now. However, I would not blame her for going into Hollywood full time, or even making a move over to WWE on some part-time contract. She has the name, and the natural athleticism, I think she could argue what a contract should involve even with the legendarily hard-headed McMahon.

Right now; I am more interested in seeing Holm fight someone else. Give Holm a chance to establish some dominance over the division; wait until the time is right to say the only person left to fight is Rousey again. I think Rousey will need another fight or two after recovery to throw off any cage-rust, and to test and expand on the lessons her match with Holm showed up. An immediate rematch does neither fighter any favours, except perhaps putting a lot of money in their pockets.

Solid post!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6382
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mazzybear wrote:
Quote:
However; who knows. Tate might finally get a fair showing of her actual skills, or some of the others in the otherwise shallow division with Rousey away. If Rousey spends too much time away; she might be walking back into a whole different division. I am not an MMA fan, and I do not like what seems like a kicking Rousey while she's down habit in the media right now, but one advantage is that the division might actually get some of the spot light rather than just one fighter.


I think that was always going to happen though, especially with the disrespect she shows to her opponents and the whole "I'm unbeatable" speil, it left her wide open for the media to crucify her. The same thing will happen to Connor McGregor next month should Jose Aldo beat him. Their over inflated egos really grate on a lot of people, so when they get beat, people's/media's smugness will come out play.


Mo.

I agree with you Mazzy. "Pride comes before a fall". In fairness I don't mind Rousey talking herself up and saying how great she is, believing in yourself is part of being a competitor, it's the really personal attacks on her fellow competitors. For someone who is a genuine symbol of women's empowerment, Rousey does herself no favours in the personal remarks she makes about the other fighters.

I thought it was refreshing to see Rousey lose, if only to shake the division up a bit. If I'm honest, I'm also in two minds whether we see he return or not. She's got the beginnings of a career in Hollywood and a WWE contract must be tempting too.
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Pro Fighting Matches and Leagues All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >