Add KarateForums.com
Username:    Password:
Remember Me?    
   I Lost My Password!
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Pro Fighting Matches and Leagues
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 See a User Guidelines violation? Press on the post.
Author Message

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Ronda doesn't sign a WWE contract, it went so well with Ken Shamrock...NOT!!

Separating real from fake isn't that easy because one might forget which one to use in the heat of the moment. Yes, Brock went from WWE to UFC to WWE, but, he might be the exception.

A Judo champion...yes! A UFC/Strikeforce champion...yes! WWE diva champion...no!!

Imho!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 476
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Ken Shamrock is perhaps a more unusual case instead the average. He did begin as an Professional Wrestler of the American ilk, before being picked up for the original incarnation of the UWF and becoming a Shoot-style wrestler. Trained by Fujiwara; he had an excellent tuition in Muay Thai, Judo, and Catch Wrestling: the magic ingredients of shoot-style. After Fujiwara Gumi sank he went into Pancrase where he got his start in Shoot-fighting; before graduating to free-fighting and what would become known as MMA.

When Shamrock was in his MMA prime; his shoot-wrestling training made him a master of all in comparison to any one barring the Gracies. However, as Bas Rutten's less than dominant UFC performances (compared to Pancrase) would later demonstrate, and Ken Shamrock's first loss to Royce hinted at; the lack of striking on the ground lead to a lack of positional awareness and an over-emphasis on going for the finish. A tactic which would earn Shamrock some of his worst losses.

Shamrock then wore his body down with the ridiculous schedule of the late 90s WWE, but mostly by the time he returned in the new millenium his model of free-fighting had been superseded by the Brazilian Jujutsu wise collection of athletes (rather than toughman fighters) with a whole new, and rule heavy, game. The time away, and cage-rust, I suspect did Ken Shamrock in more than anything he experienced in the WWE. That would be the danger for Rousey right now; spending too much time away, just as dangerous as too little time away with such an injury.

I would see Rousey as more a potential Dan Severn (who worked WWE while still fighting MMA because of the contract he secured), or perhaps Bobby Lashley. Though, to be fair Dan Severn got that contract during the time that the WWE did flirt with shoot-fighting; the brawl for all, buying in a lot of Japanese shoot-style wrestlers such as Vader and Dr Death. Also, it was the Network which wanted to see Lashley in Bellator more than TNA wanting it. I could see Rousey securing such a contract, especially considering how they bent over backwards to get Samoa Joe recently.

You know; I don't like either MMA or pro-wrestling, I am just gifted with a peculiarly eccentric group of associates, and a memory for odd trivia. I do think Rousey should stick with MMA, she has a lot of potential left, and I cannot see her leaving the sport on a down-spot. However, considering her opportunities I could see her taking the smart choice and getting paid just as well for not getting punched and kicked, and thrown about, as she is for exactly that.

Now I want to see Holm versus Tate. I think Tate deserves the shot; she was supposed to get Tate vs Rousey 3, and got side tracked for Holm. She is the only person I think Holm really needs to beat in the current division. She is the number one contender, and a bonafied mixed martial artist; unlike Holm and Rousey who have brought their elite skills in other combat sports to bear in the cage. Rousey beat Tate by avoiding Tate's ground game; a concession the former champ made with no one else. To be fair their re-match was largely one sided, but I think Tate had the misfortune of Rousey just having her number. Can Holm do the same?
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
I think Ken Shamrock is perhaps a more unusual case instead the average. He did begin as an Professional Wrestler of the American ilk, before being picked up for the original incarnation of the UWF and becoming a Shoot-style wrestler. Trained by Fujiwara; he had an excellent tuition in Muay Thai, Judo, and Catch Wrestling: the magic ingredients of shoot-style. After Fujiwara Gumi sank he went into Pancrase where he got his start in Shoot-fighting; before graduating to free-fighting and what would become known as MMA.

When Shamrock was in his MMA prime; his shoot-wrestling training made him a master of all in comparison to any one barring the Gracies. However, as Bas Rutten's less than dominant UFC performances (compared to Pancrase) would later demonstrate, and Ken Shamrock's first loss to Royce hinted at; the lack of striking on the ground lead to a lack of positional awareness and an over-emphasis on going for the finish. A tactic which would earn Shamrock some of his worst losses.

Shamrock then wore his body down with the ridiculous schedule of the late 90s WWE, but mostly by the time he returned in the new millenium his model of free-fighting had been superseded by the Brazilian Jujutsu wise collection of athletes (rather than toughman fighters) with a whole new, and rule heavy, game. The time away, and cage-rust, I suspect did Ken Shamrock in more than anything he experienced in the WWE. That would be the danger for Rousey right now; spending too much time away, just as dangerous as too little time away with such an injury.

I would see Rousey as more a potential Dan Severn (who worked WWE while still fighting MMA because of the contract he secured), or perhaps Bobby Lashley. Though, to be fair Dan Severn got that contract during the time that the WWE did flirt with shoot-fighting; the brawl for all, buying in a lot of Japanese shoot-style wrestlers such as Vader and Dr Death. Also, it was the Network which wanted to see Lashley in Bellator more than TNA wanting it. I could see Rousey securing such a contract, especially considering how they bent over backwards to get Samoa Joe recently.

You know; I don't like either MMA or pro-wrestling, I am just gifted with a peculiarly eccentric group of associates, and a memory for odd trivia. I do think Rousey should stick with MMA, she has a lot of potential left, and I cannot see her leaving the sport on a down-spot. However, considering her opportunities I could see her taking the smart choice and getting paid just as well for not getting punched and kicked, and thrown about, as she is for exactly that.

Now I want to see Holm versus Tate. I think Tate deserves the shot; she was supposed to get Tate vs Rousey 3, and got side tracked for Holm. She is the only person I think Holm really needs to beat in the current division. She is the number one contender, and a bonafied mixed martial artist; unlike Holm and Rousey who have brought their elite skills in other combat sports to bear in the cage. Rousey beat Tate by avoiding Tate's ground game; a concession the former champ made with no one else. To be fair their re-match was largely one sided, but I think Tate had the misfortune of Rousey just having her number. Can Holm do the same?

Now, that's a solid post!!



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6418
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rousey's back on it and Dana White has awarded her a shot at Holm by granting a rematch.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/espnwrousey/in-exclusive-interview-ronda-rousey-says-not-losing-holly-holm

Thoughts? Is it right for Rousey to be back so soon? Should Holm be granted a few more fights before having to face Rousey again?
_________________
"Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it." ~ Confucius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 476
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said before, and maintain, I really have no interest in an immediate rematch. Plus, I feel such a decision disadvantages both fighters, and gives all the benefit to the company.

Rousey might just be set up for another fall, which right now could kill her prospects due to the height she already fell from. Holm does not get a good run with the championship prior to such a match, and basically gets left on the back burner doing nothing with the championship. It also blocks out all others in the division from having a shot. It basically makes the division irrelevant until the rematch. The UFC and Zuffa will make a killing on the rematch; but it does nothing for any one else in the picture.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 28921
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is pretty typical for how the UFC has been doing things. People may complain that its just a money grab for the UFC, but that's what they do, they entertain people and make money off it. Rousey is a huge draw, whether you love her or hate her, and with Holm's success, the rematch just seems the logical way to go.

I believe the fight is scheduled for July. I know Holm stated she wanted to fight Tate, but I'm not sure if that would be a good fight to do before the rematch. The rematch should be a title defense, and I really think Rousey would rather have a rematch against a reigning champion Holm, and not a Holm who might have lost to Tate somewhere in between.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 476
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is very true; it is a company and has to do what is best for business. I was just holding out hope they would put the sport before the money this time and surprise me.

I think under any circumstance Rousey would want the chance to beat Holm; Holm being guaranteed to still be the title holder by the time it happens is just a cherry on top affair.
_________________
R. Keith Williams

A Rarely Used Blog:
An Uncertain Path
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15425
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DWx wrote:
Rousey's back on it and Dana White has awarded her a shot at Holm by granting a rematch.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/espnwrousey/in-exclusive-interview-ronda-rousey-says-not-losing-holly-holm

Thoughts? Is it right for Rousey to be back so soon? Should Holm be granted a few more fights before having to face Rousey again?

Compelling article; thanks for sharing that, Danielle.

Too soon? That's for her to decide! That's up to Holm's, and her manager, and whomever else if she should have some fights before her and Rousey tangle up again.



_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail

Lugh
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 08 Oct 2015
Posts: 7
Location: Ireland
Styles: Taekwondo, Shito-ryu, MMA, Jiu Jitsu

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit late to the party! I could tell by the weigh ins something was psychologically off with Rousey. I think a bad strategic game plan, and possibly media pressure could have hindered her, but am not taking anything away from Holly's brilliant performance.

A side note though, I've never liked Ronda's attitude as a champion. She was never a gracious winner, and has been even worse as a looser. As an MMA fighter it's frustrating to see these trends in a sport that is becoming more about marketing, wealth, and fame on the high end professional levels, so I have a soft spot for fighters coming from traditional backgrounds, and it's a shame to see those that sacrifice their art's values for personal hype.

I was hoping this would humble her, but apparently ut hasn't.
_________________
Tada gan irracht
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    KarateForums.com Forum Index -> Pro Fighting Matches and Leagues All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


< Advertising - Contact - Disclosure Policy - Staff - User Guidelines >