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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Unsure of what to do Reply with quote

Hi All,

So last night I was teaching with a 3rd Dan + 2nd Dan, then during the second class, the 3rd Dan takes me outside and tells me that I have been undermining his authority along with the 2nd Dans.

Which is strange because I hadn't actually done anything that could be construed as undermining their authority. Unless I am mistaken and briefly did something he felt like was being undermining.

When I teach alongside others in a whole class or small group situation, if one of the instructors gives a warning about something and what the consequences are, i'll follow that so there is consistency.


So for further context:

Our first class is full of White + Yellow Belts (9th + 8th Kyu's), and I took the warm up wanted them to be a lot quieter so the 2nd Dan could sign people in and the 3rd Dan be dealing with Parents.

So the 2nd Dan and Myself took the Yellow Belts together. I let the 2nd Dan take it, because my voice wasn't feeling too flash hot.

We were doing Kata, and all i was doing was making minor corrections and answering any small questions they may have had during class. Usually these questions were revolving around which foot to step with for the next step.

I then also asked only 1 question to the group about when we finish the kata, but otherwise didn't do too much else.

So the problem I am facing is during the 2nd Class where the 3rd Dan did what I mentioned above.

I was so shocked/surprised when it happened that I didn't say anything. As I was hurt when he mentioned it.

Do you think I should mention it to my Chief Instructor or just leave it (and move on)? Because I don't want to sound petty or vindictive.
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Bulltahr
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 08 Mar 2015
Posts: 436
Location: NEW ZEALAND
Styles: Shotokan, Seido Juku

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was the first time, then leave it, maybe he was having a bad day. Or maybe mention to him that you would like to know how you have offended him so you can note it for the future.
Sometimes those who do not have "it" resent those that do, I'm talking about teaching skills and student respect......
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singularity6
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 447
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did he give any specifics? If not, I'd pull him aside and ask. Be polite, but direct.

Some questions you may take as rhetorical:

How long have you been at this school?
Have you had other issues in the past?
Are you comfortable at this school overall?
Has this instructor had issues with how he handles his/others authority?

Based on your answers to these questions, I think you can probably come up with a reasonable decision.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 26933
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This becomes the problem in traditional styles, pulling rank in regards to what seems to be some perceived slight. Who knows what happened in his mind here, but it seems like it must have been pretty minor.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, especially if it isn't outside the realm of what you usually do. Let it pass, and see how things go moving forward.
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MatsuShinshii
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 716
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Matsumura Shorin Ryu Rokudan 1979 to Present, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would assume there is a reason for his reaction. I would pull him outside of the Dojo and ask him why he feels this way. You could also ask the other Nidan why he would think this.

I would also explain that you were attempting to help him out. Once he knows what your mindset is/was he may reconsider his actions.

I would not however go to the CI over this. For one it doesn't seem like you have any of the actual facts, why he felt this way, what you did to cause him to pull you aside and speak with you. For two you will come off as a child complaining. As a Yudansha you are expected to handle things first hand and only when there is no other recourse should you approach the CI with this issue. Talk to the Sandan first.

Based on your post it sounds like a misunderstanding. Talking it out will most likely solve the issue. Good luck.
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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

singularity6 wrote:
Did he give any specifics? If not, I'd pull him aside and ask. Be polite, but direct.

Some questions you may take as rhetorical:

How long have you been at this school?
Have you had other issues in the past?
Are you comfortable at this school overall?
Has this instructor had issues with how he handles his/others authority?

Based on your answers to these questions, I think you can probably come up with a reasonable decision.


No he didn't give any specifics which was strange. I would have pressed him (to a point) to let me know what he meant although we were in the middle of a class too.

With the questions that you placed, we have trained together for 16 years and taught regularly together for the last 6 years (+ an additional 2 years give or take).

I was thinking about it this morning (its 1:40 pm Friday afternoon at time of writing this post), the only time I think he could of construed me as undermining his authority is suggesting that we should get the iPad out to let the kids sign in so we don't have to do it in the middle of class and be running late.

As we are now using Martialytics, which if you haven't used it before you just have to type your name in and then you are checked in. And that it is time consuming, if you have to go through another part to determine if you have to test anyone for an In-Grade Test and for what they are to be tested on.

I had explained to him previously my logic of us getting it ready for the kids (+ Adults) 5-10 minutes before class, so they can check in as they arrive. Instead of us spending an extra 10-15 minutes during class doing it for them, which takes our eyes of the safety of the kids.

My CI and I had discussed previously about said logic, and that it was clear of why I thought it should happen that way. And that he would adopt such a way of organizing the check-in process, to streamline the process to make our jobs easier.


Otherwise the only other way that I think he might believe that I am undermining his authority, is if the kids are approaching me to ask questions about whatever they need to know instead of going to him to ask the same questions.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2237
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely take him aside and ask for specifics--not in an accusatory manner, but simply asking what you could do that would be more appropriate, and where you went wrong. Now, you may not have actually done ANYTHING wrong. Maybe it was just a bad day. Maybe he has a specific approach to running classes that you just didn't realize. For example, my instructor doesn't mind if I help people or answer questions when he is running a class. On the other hand, another instructor at the dojo doesn't want anyone helping or answering questions when he is running a class, which I admittedly forget from time to time.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 12907
Location: Owasso, OK
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes, things are best left alone...this, imho, would be one of times. Just let it go, and I'd not mention it to the CI. I understand how it must of made you feel, but you know what, it just doesn't matter; it's just not that important.

Things might escalate where it doesn't have to, or need to be. Making a mountain out of a mole hill can be quite counterproductive, to say the least. Why? Misunderstanding can be so easily blown out of proportions unnecessarily. Why? Hurt feelings?

Perception is reality to THAT person. Remember, that's a two way street. You'll have your own perceptions, in which the other person will have their own perceptions, and they rarely are on the same page. Just let it go!!

If you had brought this to my attention, and I was your CI, I would've instructed you to just go back to training, and leave it alone.



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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2106
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses all, I have opted not let my CI know about what has happened.

Hopefully it was just a once off, and not going to be a repeat in the future.
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