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Do you think that firearms instruction should be part of combat martial arts training?
Yes (if yes why)
86%
 86%  [ 25 ]
No (if no why not)
13%
 13%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 29

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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624


PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slag wrote:
Great thread.

While many in here started with MA before firearms, I am just the opposite. I have carried a gun professionally for a good part of the last 10 years (Army and city Police.) I also lawfully concealed carry every day.

My Glock is my primary self defense tool. MA are just a back up or an alternate for me. A few scenarios:

Surprise attack: If you didn't see the attack coming it could be difficult to draw your weapon. Drawing while fighting on the ground could be a deadly mistake. MA's gives me the ability to fight off the initial attack, break contact, retreat or draw my weapon.

Law: There are times when self defense is necessary, but lethal force may not be justified. An unarmed attacker, similar in size to yourself, does not immediately rank that high on the force continuum.

No weapons allowed: There are places where we cannot carry with a CHL. Yes, even in Texas If I am going to an anti-gun establishment, I just leave the pistol in the car. If I am going to have ANY alcohol at all, then the pistol is left at home. I would have to rely on unarmed combat.

Weapon is inoperable: Whether out of bullets or the pistol blows up in your hand. If you are in a serious enough fight that you have run out of bullets and the battle isn't over, then I wish you the best of luck. I am not the quitting type and would keep on fighting. MA may give me the slight advantage necessary to escape alive.

I do not believe that firearm training should be compulsory, but it should be an option. Make it mandatory and you will have a few clueless instructors giving out bad information because they are ignorant or do not care. Most would find it difficult to teach something that they do not believe in. Finding a good firearms instructor is just as difficult/important as finding the right MA instructor. Make it an option for those who realize that training with a firearm may save your life, and can also be a lot of fun.


I am a bit confused here. City police do not need a conceal carry permit and may take their weapons into any establishment.

We could tab about what ifs til the cows come home, but I agree that a surprise attack may not have one draw a weapon, but with the latest of compact and better holsters to draw, well, lets say I rather carry a gun than a knife for defense.

As for clueless firearm instructors, many have to be certified and scrutinzed per the state in order to give said instruction-courses.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 29377
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JusticeZero wrote:
RichardZ wrote:
bushido_man96 wrote:
That stems from that 21 foot rule, but the dynamics change when both have weapons drawn.

Indeed. The guy with the blade would have to still have his drawn first. It is all situational

In the situation that the '21 foot rule' was tested in, the knife wielder did NOT have the knife drawn at the moment of attack. The knife was drawn, and not from a good sheath, as they closed range. The situation was also however a demonstration of attack vs. response, and the main lesson, I feel, was to notify gun fans that a ranged weapon is not to be considered a panacea in situations involving moderate range.
I would furthermore consider a gun not to be considered a panacea under any circumstances; I am told (I cannot verify this personally) that during a significant portion of the year, 10mm handguns are ineffective in my state; certain common types of typical winter clothing is sufficient to stop the bullets. Handguns are hardly a case of 'you fall over now' at best in any case; neither is a blade.


Thanks for the clarification on the first part. My bad.

I also agree that it isn't the answer to all the questions. Its just another choice.

Slag: good post. Very solid.
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slag
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardZ wrote:


I am a bit confused here. City police do not need a conceal carry permit and may take their weapons into any establishment.

We could tab about what ifs til the cows come home, but I agree that a surprise attack may not have one draw a weapon, but with the latest of compact and better holsters to draw, well, lets say I rather carry a gun than a knife for defense.

As for clueless firearm instructors, many have to be certified and scrutinzed per the state in order to give said instruction-courses.


I am not a officer at this moment. I left the Dept for a civilian gig. Completely money driven decision. I wasn't clear about that

I am not 100% on this, but I do not believe that Texas requires a person to be certified by anyone just to give firearm lessons. They do for police training and CHL courses, and some ranges require at least an NRA instructor certificate.

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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624


PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Then a statement about clueless firearm instructors is somewhat erroneous due to the fact they have to be certified or accountable.

I thought you stated that you stated:

While many in here started with MA before firearms, I am just the opposite. I have carried a gun professionally for a good part of the last 10 years (Army and city Police.)

The latter suggest that you were a City Police officer.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 15811
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RichardZ wrote:
Ok. Then a statement about clueless firearm instructors is somewhat erroneous due to the fact they have to be certified or accountable.

I thought you stated that you stated:

While many in here started with MA before firearms, I am just the opposite. I have carried a gun professionally for a good part of the last 10 years (Army and city Police.)

[b]The latter suggest that you were a City Police officer.[/b

Richard,

I thank you were right from the start...

slag did say....
Quote:
I am not a officer at this moment. I left the Dept...


What's my point? I've no point, I was just saying that you were right in what you said....earlier that is.

Ok, I'm going to go back to my corner.


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RichardZ
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 624


PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
RichardZ wrote:
Ok. Then a statement about clueless firearm instructors is somewhat erroneous due to the fact they have to be certified or accountable.

I thought you stated that you stated:

While many in here started with MA before firearms, I am just the opposite. I have carried a gun professionally for a good part of the last 10 years (Army and city Police.)

The latter suggest that you were a City Police officer.[/b

Richard,

I thank you were right from the start...

slag did say....
Quote:
I am not a officer at this moment. I left the Dept...


What's my point? I've no point, I was just saying that you were right in what you said....earlier that is.

Ok, I'm going to go back to my corner.



If you go back and [b]re-read the larger post
, Slag, had not stated this in his post, which it was that I was responding .

What you are quoting, is a follow up post he made.

Anyway, I was confused on what he was saying, (at first), and he cleared it up for me.

He did make a grand post.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.[/quote]

I am a bit confused here. City police do not need a conceal carry permit and may take their weapons into any establishment.

[/quote]

Many LEOs do have a civilian CCP for CYA while off duty.
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