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scohen0300
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Joined: 09 Feb 2016
Posts: 259
Location: It varies
Styles: Matsubayashi Shorin Ryu

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 10:05 am    Post subject: Variation vs consistency Reply with quote

As instructors, how do you balance working on something consistently to get better at it, and having enough variation in the mix so your students don’t get bored? *teen/adult students*

Personally, I feel fine doing the same thing every class. My brain just likes it. I have the same warmup, and the same “core” drills as part of the warmup. Things like basic punching and kicking back and forth, using the appropriate blocking techniques.

I usually add the variation by working on something between kata rounds. Currently, my students are learning Fukyugata Ichi and Heishu Waza. So we’ll perform Fukyugata, then drill Heishu Waza for a minute or two, and repeat that 3-5 times.

If there’s time before our finishing exercises, we’ll work on Kakie, flow drills, some kind of randori, etc. and relate them to the bunkai of whatever kata they’re working on.

Closing exercises are various Karada Kitae exercises like kicking and punching to the stomach, then sit-ups/push-ups, and finishing up with stretching and meditation.

Any thoughts or insight you can share or would like to discuss? Thank you!
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aurik
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 461
Location: Denver, CO
Styles: Shuri-Ryu, Uechi-Ryu

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking as an advanced student/beginning instructor, there is a definite balance between consistency (which leads to progress) and variation, which keeps students interested. Our advanced/adult classes usually follow a fixed format. We start with warmups, technique exercises (kihon/hojo undo), and Sanchin (30 minutes). The next session is usually kotekitae, 2 sessions of rank requirements, which can be 2 person drills, learning kata, or learning bunkai. The last 10-15 minutes of class is performing kata.

Now I said *generally*. Our CI tends to run classes in 2-3 month cycles. Every so often, he'll have a "sparring week", where the classes will focus on sparring techniques, footwork, combinations, and then there will be informal sparring bouts between students. Another week he may do throws/takedowns that are implicit in our kata and 2-person drills. Another week he'll cover self-defense techniques (again, derived from our kata).

Your students will want to progress -- if not just to earn their next rank, they want enough repetitions of their techniques where they can feel their speed/power/technique improving. However, they also need the occasional variety of new material. You'll find a balance that works best for you and your students.
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bushido_man96
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30008
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2023 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen classes where there is total consistency, and no variation; as a student, I hated that. It's good to see some variance.
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 726
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2023 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally i would say it is very hard to find an answer to this one as it entirely depends on your student base.

Myself, i prefer a lot of repetition with only a small amount of variation as i find that that is a good way to build skills and get better. I don't mind doing the same thing 1000 times to improve and don't need to change it up. I like point of variation usually with it having a clear reason eg practicing a certain combination with an uraken to work on hip/shoulder rotation etc. Changing for changes sake doesn't work for me.

For others, i know it is totally different. They like to be exposed to the widest variety of things possible and then they can pick from it what they like and work on that themselves. They like to be exposed to the widest possibly variety of stimulae and then take it from there.

One think i think works well for the majority of people is to do what my bjj coach does. He sets 'topics' for a time period and all the coaches will cover that area. eg it might be open guard passing and each coach delivers their own sesssions in gi or no-gi in that broad area and on their individual takes on it.

If you have a clear framework of : we will do kihon, some kata, some bunkai an some kumite and then impose a framework on it such as "this month we are working on closer range fighting" and then practice kihon with shorter range combinations; kata with less range; bunkai for close in; some kumite drills such as one person has their back to a wall and fight from there etc. that could work well
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16251
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2023 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Effectiveness!! Without that, consistency and variations, either both together or separate, mean not much at all. At each level, interests are there because the consistent variations are quite evident. Still, that means nothing if effectiveness sits in the back seat as more of a passenger than driver.

I've had Godan and above students of mine, especially, cry about this very thing that the OP brings up. My response was to them, their concerns should be that they're not mature in technique enough. The drills and the like are effective, so, stop belly aching and get back on maturing said techniques, and that means said drills and the like...with a smile on their faces.



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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 494
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2023 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have three rules I try to adhere to on the dojo floor:

1. At least 60% of the time in class should be focused on working with a partner.
2. 50% of everything we do should relate directly back to a Kata
3. I as the coach should take part in 50-80% of the exercises.

When I began teaching I made the mistake of often focusing on what I wanted to do rather than taking a step back and understanding what my students needed. This was because my motivation was to create a space to train in because the two local clubs I tried disappointed me. We would maybe do some basics to warm up, and then we would work on different drills I had picked up and wanted to work on. To an extent, I let my mindset that a student should work on repetitions in their own time, so they can focus on learning new things in class was probably rigid. I had an unfortunate, but necessary, rude awakening when a student stopped attending and gave me the feed back that there was not enough consistency in classes, and they felt they were not progressing. And that student had attended for over a year at that point and they had previously earned a Shodan in Shotokan, so I took that feedback to heart. However, with that said I do think it important to have an element of change in each class.

The way I have found a balance between the two is to have a cycle I go through. It is a 12-Week Cycle based around the Pinangata:
Week 1-2: Pinan NIdan
Week 3-4: Pinan Shodan
Week 5-6: Pinan Sandan
Week 7-8: Pinan Godan
Week 9-10: Pinan Yondan
Week 11-12: Jiyu Kumite, Grading Material Review, and Kata Tutorials.

The weeks of that Kata are spent on Bunkai and exercises related to that kata. The weeks also alternate so the first week the focus is on striking skills, and the second on Wrestling skills. Here is an example of the structure using Pinan Nidan. Those parts I have placed an asterisk * next to are where I do something different for that session. The time stamps are estimates I try to stick to during sessions but I am not that strict on them if I think more time is needed spent on something during class, but I do try to run through the sequence in whole.

Week 1 Wednesday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching, some games with bean bags if we have new prospects.
10 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi: Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 60 repetitions each. (I do at least 40)
3 Minutes - Kushin Undo: 32 repetitions.
5 Minutes- Naihanchi Shodan up to three times.
10 Minutes - Renzoku Kumite – strikes and deflections used restricted to those found in Pinan Nidan or the Rolling Bunkai
10 Minutes - *Drilling – Flow Drills, Pad Work, Ude Tanren, or Live Drilling based on what I identified as a general problem during Renzoku Kumite.
5 Minutes Pinan Nidan Rolling Bunkai as a line drill. Students and I form two lines and we work up and down the line until I have practiced with everyone. If a student does not know the Rolling Bunkai for the fortnight, for example if it is a Godan Session but they only know up to Shodan, they will instead run through the bunkai they know as Seme, and will just be directed how to attack as Uke.
10 Minutes - *Partner Practice: I break the class up into pairs or smaller groups and have them practice what they need for their level. Some students may not yet know the Kata or the Rolling Bunkai so will focus on the bunkai they know and need for their level, so they may do Shodan exercises when it is a Yondan session otherwise if they are not ready for Yondan work. The structure is just the basic Rolling Bunkai if they are new to it, or the Flow Drills, more advanced applications, and resistance drills if they are more experienced.
15 Minutes - Pinan Nidan: I pair students up and they take turns to hold a pad and wield a striking stick. As one student goes through the kata the other gives them a target to strike, and tests the quality of their receiving techniques. I go around with a resistance band I tie into their belts, and I test each of their stances and ability to move against resistance with their foot work. As with the bunkai above, students will work on material they know and need to work on for their level, rather than what the focus of the sessions are. After everyone has had a go we run through the Kata eight times. Once with one move at a time to my command and then at everyone’s own pace with me performing the kata too. Then with me observing once a move at a time, once with sequences to my command, once as fast as the student can, once a move at a time but self-paced, and then twice as a standard performance.
1 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill I learnt from Aragaki Sensei twice up and down the room.
5 Minutes - Kihon Waza in stance up and down the room: Joden Junzuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Shuto-Uke, and Mawashi Geri (Performed as in Tae Kwon Do to the Middle and the Head). To the air with me leading once up the room, then I get a striking pad or stick, and make sure everyone strikes the pad, or receives a strike, six times to check the quality of their technique.
10 – Minutes Sanchin: students pair up and do Sanchin once with their partner testing the quality of their Sanchin, and with me going around and giving feed-back. Then we do Sanchin all together twice through.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 1 Friday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching.
15 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi – Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 100 repetitions each. (I do at least 80)
5 Minutes - Hojo Undo - 32 Kushin Undo, 20 Split Lunges, 20 Shiko, 20 Hindu Squats, 8 Single leg Squats.
5 Minutes - Naihanchi Shodan up to Five times.
5 Minutes – Drilling: Revisit and Revise Drill done on Wednesday.
10 Minutes - Renzoku Kumite: strikes and deflections used restricted to those found in Pinan Nidan or the Rolling Bunkai
30 Minutes - *Whatever I feel like: I do something unrelated to Pinan Nidan or introduce something new related to Pinan Nidan otherwise not in the syllabus. For example, I might teach an interesting throw I saw watching Sumo, or a striking manoeuvre from Karate Combat, or a suggested Bunkai for Pinan Nidan I found interesting. Generally in week one though it will be related to striking skills. Once a month I do try to do a session of Soft Skills, Self-Defence Drills, or Grappling on the Ground, and it is in these sections I do those things.
5 Minutes - Pinan Nidan Rolling Bunkai as a line drill. Students and I form two lines and we work up and down the line until I have practiced with everyone.
10 – Minutes - Partner Practice: Same exercises as done on Wednesday.
15 Minutes - Pinan Nidan Kata Practice
2 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill six times up and down the room.
10 Minutes - Kihon Waza in stance up and down the room: All Te-Waza against the air, and against pads/striking stick up to ten times.
10 Minutes – Sanchin: students pair up and do Sanchin once with their partner testing the quality of their Sanchin, and with me going around and giving feed-back. Sanchin keiko all the way up and down the room, and then once through Sanchin Kata to conclude.
Any remaining time we run through the other pinan twice each, and then do three choice kata.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 2 Wednesday Sessions
Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching, some games with bean bags if we have new prospects.
Kihon Waza – Same as Week 1
Kushin Undo – 32 repetitions.
Naihanchi Shodan up to three times.
Kakei Kumite – Grip Breaks and Guard Passes restricted to moves found in Pinan Nidan.
*Drilling – Flow Drills, Pad Work, Ude Tanren, or Live Drilling based on what I identified as a general problem during Kakei Kumite.
Pinan Nidan Rolling Bunkai as a line drill.
*Partner Practice
Pinan Nidan Kata Practice
Blocking and Striking Drill
Kihon Waza in stance up and down the room - Same as week one except we do Mawashi Uke as done in Muay Thai to the middle and the leg.
Sanchin – Same as week one.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 2 Friday Sessions:
Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching.
Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi – Same as week one.
Hojo Undo – Same as week one.
Naihanchi Shodan up to Five times.
Drilling – Revisit and Revise Drill done on Wednesday.
Kakai Kumite – Grip Breaks and Guard Passes restricted to moves found in Pinan Nidan.
*Whatever I feel like – Same as week one but I focus on something related to wrestling/grappling skills. This is when I am most likely to do ground fighting or self-defence drills during the month as they tie in best.
Pinan Nidan Rolling Bunkai as a line drill.
Partner Practice (Repeat Wednesday Exercises)
Pinan Nidan Kata Practice
Blocking and Striking Drill
Kihon Waza in stance up and down the room: All Keri-Waza against the air, and against pads/striking stick up to ten times.
Sanchin – Same as week one.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Using this structure I find brings a good balance between working on material in a recurring and consistent manner, but also gives moments of flexibility and change from session to session. I have students improve on a gradual, but measurable way, by having this level of consistency. But everyone also seems to have fun on the regular too.

To give a basic structure of weeks 11-12 which are not built around any of the Pinagata:

Week 1 Wednesday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching, some games with bean bags if we have new prospects.
10 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi: Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 60 repetitions each. (I do at least 40)
3 Minutes - Kushin Undo: 32 repetitions.
5 Minutes- Naihanchi Shodan Tutorial and review of Principles.
10 Minutes – White/Yellow/New Green: Jiyu Kimute (Controlled Light contact to the Body and Legs – Threaten with the hand to the head), Green/Blue/New Purple: Bogu Kumite (Hard Contact to the Body Armour – Light contact to the Head and to the Legs), Purple/Brown/Black: Bogu Kumite (Hard Contact to the Body Armour, Controlled Contact to the Head and the legs.
10 Minutes - *Drilling – Flow Drills, Pad Work, Ude Tanren, or Live Drilling based on what I identified as a general problem during Jiyu Kumite
5 Minutes - Rolling Bunkai Tutorial according to Grades present.
10 Minutes – Introduction to Grading Material for each different grade to be practiced in small groups.
15 Minutes – Kata Tutorial according to Grades Present.
1 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill I learnt from Aragaki Sensei twice up and down the room.
5 Minutes – Kihon Waza according to Grades Present.
10 Minutes – Sanchin Tutorial and review of Principles
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 1 Friday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching.
15 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi – Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 100 repetitions each. (I do at least 80)
5 Minutes - Hojo Undo - 32 Kushin Undo, 20 Split Lunges, 20 Shiko, 20 Hindu Squats, 8 Single leg Squats.
5 Minutes - Naihanchi Shodan Tutorial and review of Principles.
5 Minutes – Drilling: Revisit and Revise Drill done on Wednesday.
10 Minutes – Jiyu Kumite
30 Minutes – Free Practice
5 Minutes – Rolling Bunkai Tutorial according to Grades present.
10 – Minutes - Partner Practice: Same exercises as done on Wednesday.
15 Minutes – Kata practice to run through every kata the students should know.
2 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill six times up and down the room.
10 Minutes – Kihon Waza: Revisit and Revise as done on Wednesday.
10 Minutes – Sanchin Tutorial and review of Principles.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 2 Wednesday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching, some games with bean bags if we have new prospects.
10 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi: Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 60 repetitions each. (I do at least 40)
3 Minutes - Kushin Undo: 32 repetitions.
5 Minutes- Naihanchi Shodan Tutorial and review of Principles.
10 Minutes – White/Yellow/New Green: Kakedameshi-Ju (Grappling Only with no take downs) Green/Blue/New Purple: Kakedameshi-Ju/Go (Striking to the Body but no take downs), Purple/Brown/Black: Kakedameshi-Ju/Go (No hard striking to the head without a helmet)
10 Minutes - *Drilling – Flow Drills, Pad Work, Ude Tanren, or Live Drilling based on what I identified as a general problem during Kakedameshi.
5 Minutes - Rolling Bunkai Tutorial according to Grades present.
10 Minutes – Introduction to Grading Material for each different grade to be practiced in small groups.
15 Minutes – Kata Tutorial according to Grades Present.
1 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill I learnt from Aragaki Sensei twice up and down the room.
5 Minutes – Kihon Waza according to Grades Present.
10 Minutes – Sanchin Tutorial and review of Principles
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Week 2 Friday Sessions:
5 Minutes - Warm-Up: Dynamic stretching.
15 Minutes - Kihon Waza in Naihanchi-Dachi – Chudan Tsuki, Joden Tsuki, Joden Uke, Gedan Barai, Soto Uke, Uchi Uke, Shuto-Uke, and Mae Geri: 100 repetitions each. (I do at least 80)
5 Minutes - Hojo Undo - 32 Kushin Undo, 20 Split Lunges, 20 Shiko, 20 Hindu Squats, 8 Single leg Squats.
5 Minutes - Naihanchi Shodan Tutorial and review of Principles.
5 Minutes – Drilling: Revisit and Revise Drill done on Wednesday.
10 Minutes – Kakedameshi-Ju
30 Minutes – Isolation Sparring/Live Drilling/: Students Paired up to work on faults identified over Week 1 and Week 2 Wednesday from Jiyu Kumite and Kakedameshi.
5 Minutes – Rolling Bunkai Tutorial according to Grades present.
10 – Minutes - Partner Practice: Same exercises as done on Wednesday.
15 Minutes – Kata practice to run through every kata the students should know.
2 Minutes - Blocking and Striking Drill six times up and down the room.
10 Minutes – Kihon Waza: Revisit and Revise as done on Wednesday.
10 Minutes – Sanchin Tutorial and review of Principles.
Junbi Undo to cool down.

Apologies for the essay. In short, I find having a structure, and more importantly time to review, helps students progress through repetition. However, you need to make sure that they find something new to learn when they attend to keep them interested, and new information in itself is a useful repetition exercise: the ability to take in a retain information is a skill that needs to be practiced just like any other.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30008
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2023 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite the layout, Keith. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

At our school, we have "traditional" classes, and these classes are all pretty much the same layout: basics, forms, one-steps, and sparring (if the instructor doesn't lollygag and actually get to it; all too often anymore, there isn't as much sparring). We have separate classes as well; we have out black belt class, in which we've been doing a rotation of forms focus one week, and a Ho Sin Sul focus the following week. The other class is a "T-shirt" class, which is more informal, and students can roll out the bags and kick all class, and we'll often spend time sparring, or we can pair up and do some different partner work if we would like to.
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Wastelander
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Posts: 2712
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Styles: Shorin-Ryu, Shuri-Ryu, Judo, KishimotoDi

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I typically try to stick with a theme, as a few others have mentioned, so that there is a lot of crossover, even if we aren't necessarily working on the exact same thing all the time. I start classes with the same warm-ups every time, for the most part, and occasionally add a couple extra exercises if I feel it would benefit everyone going forward in that session. After that is hojo undo, which changes from day-to-day, but is usually some combination of two or three hojo undo kigu. After that we run through the solo kata--for beginners, we can do all of them, but for advanced, we can stick to just the ones we are going to pull from that day. All of that typically takes the first 30 minutes or so of my 90 minute classes. The rest of the time is partner work, from platform drills like kakie and parry-pass to bully sparring and kakedameshi.

The vast majority of that partner work is focused on training to apply the movements and postures of the kata from various positions, points of contact, and directions of movement, as well as in response to different stimuli. That means that even though we might be working totally different drills each session, we are working a lot of the same material within those drills, so students get "repetition by stealth," as Iain Abernethy likes to put it. For example, let's say we're going to work on applying the "stacked hands" position in Naihanchi Shodan as an armbar. We could just practice that over and over again in a static manner until everyone has it, or we can work it into a variety of drills that give it context, and which we can build on to add resistance. We can work that armbar from kakie so the student develops tactile sensitivity in response to a clash of arms. We can work it from parry-pass so they can develop the hand speed necessary to capture the opponent's arms when they are moving quickly. We can work it from block-pass-check (hubud lubud) to give more variety to the entries available. We can work it from padwork whenever the padholder extends an arm. We can work it off of a strangle attempt, or a headlock. We can work it from bully sparring so they have to learn to apply it under constant forward pressure. We can work it from kakedameshi to really drive home the close-range fighting skills needed to apply it. We can work it from MMA-style sparring so they can learn how to do it when the opponent is skilled in a wide array of fighting methods. We can work it from groundwork so they learn how the mechanics change in that situation. We can work it from self-defense scenario drills, so they can learn how and when to apply it when someone is acting out pre-attack indicators and behaviors. The list goes on and on.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30008
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noah, that sounds like a class that I would love to be a part of.
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DarthPenguin
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 03 Dec 2021
Posts: 726
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Styles: Shotokan, Judo, BJJ

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2023 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll second bushido_mans comment - sounds like a really interesting class!
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