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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2131


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Violence in the mind and not in the motion Reply with quote

Do all martial art styles need to be up for analysis, on how effective they are in combat situations?

Fighting without violence, is it possible?

As one martial artist to another, in your next sparring session, give it a go, fight but with a none violent mindset.

Let us know how it felt to you, doing it in this none violent thinking way.
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 6851
Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Violence in the mind and not in the motion Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Do all martial art styles need to be up for analysis, on how effective they are in combat situations?

Fighting without violence, is it possible?

As one martial artist to another, in your next sparring session, give it a go, fight but with a none violent mindset.

Let us know how it felt to you, doing it in this none violent thinking way.


Do they need to be evaluated based on combat effectiveness? It depends. Do they purport to be combat based arts? If so, then yes. However, if the answer is "it's a sport art" then no.

Is fighting without violence possible? No.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14289
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Violence in the mind and not in the motion Reply with quote

tallgeese wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
Do all martial art styles need to be up for analysis, on how effective they are in combat situations?

Fighting without violence, is it possible?

As one martial artist to another, in your next sparring session, give it a go, fight but with a none violent mindset.

Let us know how it felt to you, doing it in this none violent thinking way.


Do they need to be evaluated based on combat effectiveness? It depends. Do they purport to be combat based arts? If so, then yes. However, if the answer is "it's a sport art" then no.

Is fighting without violence possible? No.

Solid post!!

Violence, no matter how one views it, is the necessary evil. Without violence, of some degree, there's nothing that we can do as MAists.



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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the guiding principle of Uechi Ryu Karate to make your body so hard that it'll shrug off any attack and demoralize your attacker? Violence is thought of as a last resort in that art.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27663
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never sparred with violent intentions. In my opinion, that isn't what sparring in class is for. Sparring, although competitive, is still a learning environment, and if you take care of your partners, they take care of you, and you both get to learn something.
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mushybees
Orange Belt
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Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 196
Location: UK
Styles: Wado ryu

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martial art without violence imo should be the goal and as said previously I never train or spar without full control of my emotions.

Self defence with out violence is a different matter entirely imo. You can train sd without violent intent but in real life application, violence is your friend.

Decent people are conditioned to find violence abhorrent but there is such a thing as righteous violence when it's applied in the defence of ones self and loved ones.
You need to be able to switch it on when required which is sometimes the difference between ma being effective or not. It's the fight in the dog.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2131


PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Controlling one's martial art and applying it appropriately depending on the situation should be taken in to consideration.

This does however take an enormous amount of knowledge and experience in a variety of martial art disciplines to be able to do it sensibly.

Restraining a mentally ill patient with Boxing or Muay Thai techniques isn't a working system.

Using martial art techniques to protect oneself against a mentally ill person in a hospital environment, should not involve any type of violence.

Perhaps a patient has a violent reaction to a medication; this isn't the moment to use a rear naked choke, till the person blanks out.

These scenarios are taught to the Chinese military police, something I was fortunate enough to learn.

There is of course the right time or moment to be very violent to protect oneself and love ones; which leads to the opposite issue of not being violent, when it is necessary to do do; sports martial arts don't usually address this issue appropriately.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14289
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The violence that I speak about concerning the MA is not what's reported on the news in print and video. No.

However...

What we do, and can do to another human being is a violent act in itself.

What I have within myself, at the point and the moment of my being attacked, has the very high percentage of causing my attacker(s) quite a lot of misery through my intentional resolve to defend myself; this, sad to say, will require of me to be violent to some degree.

I'm no walk in the park! And if need be in order to defend my family, loved ones, friends, and myself, I will act violently. And yes, my defending my family, loved ones, friends, and myself, even if it's a simple push, that too, is a violent act. There's nothing simple about whatever I feel that I must do to protect those most important to me, including myself, because that quick block and punch/kick to my attacker is a violent act of some unknown degree.





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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mushybees wrote:
Martial art without violence imo should be the goal and as said previously I never train or spar without full control of my emotions.

Self defence with out violence is a different matter entirely imo. You can train sd without violent intent but in real life application, violence is your friend.

Decent people are conditioned to find violence abhorrent but there is such a thing as righteous violence when it's applied in the defence of ones self and loved ones.
You need to be able to switch it on when required which is sometimes the difference between ma being effective or not. It's the fight in the dog.


"Violence is the gold standard, the reserve that guarantees order. In actuality, it is better than a gold standard, because violence has universal value. Violence transcends the quirks of philosophy, religion, and culture. (...) It's time to quit worrying and learn to love the battle axe. history teaches us that if we don't someone else will." Jack Donovan
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Controlling one's martial art and applying it appropriately depending on the situation should be taken in to consideration.

This does however take an enormous amount of knowledge and experience in a variety of martial art disciplines to be able to do it sensibly.

Restraining a mentally ill patient with Boxing or Muay Thai techniques isn't a working system.

Using martial art techniques to protect oneself against a mentally ill person in a hospital environment, should not involve any type of violence.

Perhaps a patient has a violent reaction to a medication; this isn't the moment to use a rear naked choke, till the person blanks out.

These scenarios are taught to the Chinese military police, something I was fortunate enough to learn.

There is of course the right time or moment to be very violent to protect oneself and love ones; which leads to the opposite issue of not being violent, when it is necessary to do do; sports martial arts don't usually address this issue appropriately.


This is precisely what I get paid to do. I can't count the times I have had to control a mentally ill or mentally well (but violent) patient.

I do use violence. Restraining someone (no matter how nicely you do it) is a violent act.
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"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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