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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14530
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's that which is within us that refuses to surrender; fight until the very end!!



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azad2015
White Belt
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Joined: 30 Apr 2015
Posts: 1


PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CredoTe wrote:
Harkon72 wrote:
If this is the case then by definition it is not a martial art. Soldiers get paid, warriors fight for their survival and that of their loved ones. Many professional armies have suffered defeat at the hands of common warriors defending their homeland; from the Crusades to Vietnam. I don't know about others, but my budo is not a pass time or a hobby and defiantly not a sport. It is part of who I am; It's physical, mental and spiritual; that's why it's a martial art.


While you are correct about commoners defending their homelands against much larger professional armies, a huge factor in many of these instances, and in particular the Crusades and Vietnam, have to do with logistics. In both cases, each successive invading army continued to fail to properly plan and prepare and formulate a strategy of logistics for their own army as well as the indigenous armies. The generals, priests, and monarchs calling the shots for the Crusaders just couldn't come together to agree on anything, and hence, they started to lose money and supplies, which left the Crusaders stranded and starving. The Crusaders that realized this are the ones that said "this is stupid, this is folly", and secretly diverted monies and treasures used to pay and supply them into hidden caches and vaults, or to outright sack one of their own strongholds (all before they were formally disbanded and all burned at the stake).

Vietnam was almost the same thing, just replace secret gold and treasure with drugs, add in modern politics, and TA-DA, failure (or victory from the viewpoint of the Viet Cong)...

If the Crusaders had had unified political, theocratic, and plebeian support, I wonder what the Middle East would look like today?

If the US and France had had unified political support and the support of the people, I wonder what East Asia, in particular Southeast Asia, would look like today?

Your last statement is highly commendable and respectable. Taking in the MA and internalizing both its martial and spiritual aspects is a great thing.

guird wrote:
A warrior is simply someone who specializes in warfare. They fight and kill on the battlefield. According to wikipedia, it normally refers specifically to members of a social class designated to fight in war (e.g. samurai). Being a warrior means killing, generally because someone in charge started a war and wants you to end it.

When people talk about the warrior spirit however, that isn't really what they mean. It seems to refer more to a number of qualities that are useful on the battlefield, and off it. Perseverence and courage being central it seems. the other useful battlefield qualities such as heartlessness and aggression aren't really emphasized.


Absolutely... The only thing I would add is from Harkon's last statement... Internalizing one's budo for self-improvement and enlightenment is a viable endeavor of the MA.

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Titanium
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 259
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Styles: Wado-Kai & Shotokan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harkon72 wrote:
A Soldier does as he's told, a Warrior stands between danger and those he loves and holds dear. If there is a threat to my Wife or family, it'll have to get through me to harm them. Such is Bushido, such is the Warrior Spirit of my Celtic people. Are you willing to die for those you love?

Excellent post!
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412


PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A warrior in my eyes is a fearless person as opposed to a wimp that is afraid of everything.

Love is the strongest emotion humans have, to protect what we love, be it family, home or country. It is the warrior spirit that is awakened if our loves are threatend, the body is just there to follow it's commands.

Having the warrior spirit is to gladly die for the greater good. Having a self sacrificing nature that fights for what is right. The knights of the round table comes to mind, to fight unlike a savage, but to fight like a real free man that fights with honor and has vitues that inspire other men to be virtues also.
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1737

Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Warrior Spirit" is nothing more than an idealized concept to glamourize violence and chaos to those who have never had the misfortune of finding themselves facing them and the painful consequences they bring.

Only a fool can be fearless. The truly brave are afraid, but they still make decisions and act on them knowing the risks or dangers. It might be more realistic and accessible to consider "determination" "survival instinct" instead. Both of these qualities can and are trainable because they exist in everyone. All it takes to bring them out and sharpen them to a fine point is the right motivation and encouragement.
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
A warrior in my eyes is a fearless person as opposed to a wimp that is afraid of everything.



As a wimp who is afraid of everything, I must disagree on this point. I have on few occasions been willing to enter a possible life or death conflict to defend the innocent or to defend my right to be in a public place and speak to someone I want to speak to. I will die before allowing a drunk man to scream threats at a young girl, watching a robbery, let someone insult my mother, or be told I can't have a conversation with a friend. It's a matter of principle. I might be about to soil myself like Brave Sir Robin, but I won't stand for it. Courage is not the absence of fear, but the conquest of it.


Anyway, I have this, but not what it takes to be military or law enforcement. So, does this qualify as "warrior spirit" or not?

On a side note, and I've had this be a point of contention, I don't think courage is the sole property of the side of "good" and human decency. Everyone wants to think of the bad guy as a coward. And undisciplined, untrained, and stupid. I think a person with very bad intentions can be brave, well trained, and cunning. To assume otherwise as a martial artist is to train only to fight fat lazy chickens with no technique. This can get you killed. On a philosophical level, to assume otherwise is to see strength- on a mental and emotional level- to be automatically altruistic. Might makes right, right? No. Hate can be a powerful motivation. It can drive a person to great lengths, the conquest of fear, self doubt, the meeting of training goals, the carrying out of heinous acts. Never assume the enemy is stupid weak and cowardly, train to fight the devil himself. Thoughts?
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A person is born with a warrior spirit or is born without it. It all depends on the nature of the person to develops what they are; warrior or wimp or whatever.

Good warriors win the day and survives. The wimp runs away and survives. The difference is that the warrior can look himself or herself in the mirror; knowing and feeling something that the wimp will never posses.

That is the warrior spirit knowing bravery as opposed to the wimp only knowing cowardness. Who do you look at in the mirror each morning?

Personally I train my self to be a warrior and will protect the wimps. Having a warrior spirit is something I was born with; it is most likely a genetic survial thing but that's another story.

A Chinese scholar told me that I am reincarnated from a Chinese warrior. As karma and reincarnation is an accepted view in the orient. It is another valid point of view also.

Having a warrior spirit isn't a blind or stupid way to be. Sometimes it takes more courage to walk away from a fight or confrontation, than jumping in with both feet and hands. It is to do what is right in the face of those that do wrong.

The warrior spirit isn't a romantic notion for me. I don't glorify war or condone it. I don't ornate weapons either. I am thankful for the warrior spirit in my ancestors, because without them being who they were; I would never exist!
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14530
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Labels, imho, separate individuals, thusly, divides them instead of uniting them; all are human beings.

I'm the furthest thing from being a 'whimp', yet, and however, I was taught by my Sensei, and I therefore, teach it to my students, that there's nothing wrong with running away from any altercation, if one can. I'd rather run away from a proposed attacker, than confront said attacker for personal as well as professional reasons.

If a conflict occurs with an attacker, and at the very first opportunity to leave arrives, I will leave as quickly as I can. To me, this meets the expectations of everything I know, both personal as well as professional.



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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2412


PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running away could be the best option and doesn't make a person a wimp! This depending on the circumstances is good strategy.

What if running away is not an option or possible in a conflict? being surrounded or no exit? What do you do?

What if the situation is more complicated than what you have learned from your Sensei? What do you do?

Labels or generalizations are helpful to organize things and thoughts quickly. sensei 8 is a label you have given yourself! My label was given to me by my parents.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14530
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
What if running away is not an option or possible in a conflict? being surrounded or no exit? What do you do?

What if the situation is more complicated than what you have learned from your Sensei? What do you do?

Labels or generalizations are helpful to organize things and thoughts quickly. sensei 8 is a label you have given yourself! My label was given to me by my parents.

Well, I'll deal with each situation as it unfolds, not until then!! If I must stay, then I will. But within me, is the survival instinct that also allows me to do all I can to create an opportunity to separate myself from the situation. I'm complete in my MA totality.



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