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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:35 pm    Post subject: WC William Cheung vs WT Emin Boztepe Reply with quote

The fight between two top Wing Chun / Wing Tzun practitioners, William Cheung vs Emin Boztepe. This was a momentous event, that rocked the Wing Chun World forever!

Was this a positive or negative thing, as this was not a scheduled fight?

The fight can be seen on YouTube.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14323
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that the fight more served the fighters more than either of the styles because a style can be deemed as only as good as their representative. Example, JKD is only as good as the practitioner because no JKD practitioner can execute JKD like its founder, Bruce Lee.

Imho!



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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emin has a large following now. With a none Chinese flavoring found in places around the world. Very combative based solely on scientific body mechanics and efficiency.

William also practices Chinese medicine therefore internal medicine and his Wing Chun is in-grained in Chinese culture, tradition and history.

Emin's version of Wing Tsun is not a Chinese martial art system. It is an efficient Terkish/German form follows function combative style of fighting; devoid of art.
Emin's Wing Tsun is an anti martial art combative style.
An ultra effective combative fighting style.

The World is big enough for many versions of Wing Chun and there are many more version to be discovered.

Both Emin and William have very valid points of view. Expanding Wing Chun with controversy and diversity.

Politics always has a way of showing up, military coup's included such as the Emin vs William fight; a type of civil war.
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TJ-Jitsu
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Joined: 30 Sep 2014
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Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It did a great job of shattering the theories of wing chun.

Two guys who were supposedly the best in the world at wing chun- who practice "anti-grappling" "chain punching" and all that jazz.... and it ended up being the most pitiful excuse for martial artists in a fight. It was their welcome to the world of UFC 1993... better late than never
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
It did a great job of shattering the theories of wing chun.

Two guys who were supposedly the best in the world at wing chun- who practice "anti-grappling" "chain punching" and all that jazz.... and it ended up being the most pitiful excuse for martial artists in a fight. It was their welcome to the world of UFC 1993... better late than never
The theories of Wing Chun are more than still intact.
Two guys out of 2 million that practice Wing Chun, hardly fluff with this "and all that jazz...." theory.

It wasn't a UFC (for entertainment) fight, the event was inevitable due to the high caliber of each individual; it is the way of Wing Chun....
any place any time!

The fight was not a pay per view spectacle, rather a way wars should be faught with two combatants, this way blood shed is kept to a minimum with only two combatants instead of 1000s or more.
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Tempest
Green Belt
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Joined: 31 Aug 2006
Posts: 420
Location: Tulsa, OK
Styles: Judo, HEMA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I didn't want to say anything until I saw the fight, because I don't know anything about CMA, but now that I have seen it, in HD, at half speed and everything, it looks like a guy who could be one of our competitive green-belts just beating the snot out of some other guy. who has no idea how to get out of the situation he finds himself in.
If the situation is one where the guy on the bottom was trying to make claims as to the fighting applicability of whatever it was that he did, then I would say that those claims have been effectively debunked, but other than that, it really looks like a green belt in Judo just got mad at this guy and beat the snot out of him.
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tallgeese
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Joined: 04 May 2008
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Location: McHenry County, IL
Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. I was totally unaware of this feud as I'm not, nor ever have been a CMA guy. That said, reading the history of both individuals and the event was an interesting exercise.

As for the video, I'm not sure if either guy proved anything about CMA. As others have pointed out, none of this really looks like Wing Chug. It does look very much light a fight you'd see in just about any sector of conflict. There's that.

TJ is correct. Many MAists went thru something like after the advent of UFC. What trad artists discovered, myself included, is that when confronted with aggression fights often land on the ground. This does not invalidate what you're done before, but adds a real dimension that most artist really don't comprehend.

So while there's not much to be said about either's WC, it does highlight the need for fighters to be adequately versed in ground fighting. The display high-lighted in the video was not impressive ground fighting. Why should it be? I'm guessing that neither has spend a ton of time there.

That's not a bad thing, it's just an eye opener for the fighters involved.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tempest wrote:
Ok, so I didn't want to say anything until I saw the fight, because I don't know anything about CMA, but now that I have seen it, in HD, at half speed and everything, it looks like a guy who could be one of our competitive green-belts just beating the snot out of some other guy. who has no idea how to get out of the situation he finds himself in.
If the situation is one where the guy on the bottom was trying to make claims as to the fighting applicability of whatever it was that he did, then I would say that those claims have been effectively debunked, but other than that, it really looks like a green belt in Judo just got mad at this guy and beat the snot out of him.
Very fair and good description from "Tempest"

This was not a fight scene written by a Hollywood producer, reality fights can look very amateur due to the surprise attack and the spontaneity factor.

When one is way past their prime as a fighter and the other person is in their prime, it hardly seems like a fair fight.

The younger tiger wanted to be king of the (Wing Chun) mountain, Emin took his chance over William and won!

This is the law of the jungle; including the concrete ones.
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: tallgeese statement; Emin has Turkish wrestling experience.
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tallgeese
KF Sensei
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Styles: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Gokei Ryu Kempo Jutsu, MMA, Shootfighting, boxing, kickboxing, JKD, Pekiti Tersia Kali

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
Re: tallgeese statement; Emin has Turkish wrestling experience.


Ok, but he's predominantly a WC guy, correct? Again, I don't see how the fight proves anything about WC. Neither should hype this as a "my kung fu is stronger."
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