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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:29 pm Post subject: Weight Classes! |
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This topic has been talked about, but...
I hate the fact that UFC and the like use the weight class division? Why? We're MAists and we should be able to know how to defend ourselves no matter the weight class of our unknown attacker.
I understand why they're there, the weight classes, but UFC 1 and the other first ones, had NO WEIGHT CLASS! Now, we have weight classes.
Frosts me to no end!! Are we MAists or not?
Your thoughts, please!!
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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Zaine
Black Belt
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 2277
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Matsumura-Seito, Shobayashi-Ryu, Shudokan, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Southern Mantis, HEMA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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My Shorin Ryu instructor was 300+ and over 6 feet tall. I was 6 feet and lanky and young and stupid and all the good things that make for an uncoordinated teen. Because of this, a lot of my training was against a bigger guy so I agree about the weight divisions. A good Martial Artist trains for people of all sizes, not just the people in their same weight class. I stopped watching UFC a long time ago and can cite that as a reason. I don't think that an person (man or woman) should limit themselves to learning to fight a certain weight class.
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Martial arts training is 30% classroom training, 70% solo training.
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Depends. In Karate, I'd gladly go up against someone bigger than me, but in Judo it's a different story. We had this one big older guy who learned Judo when he was a boy in Soviet Russia who restarted the same night I joined. Because there weren't too many adults in class I got paired with him a lot despite the fact he was five inches taller and a good 150 pounds heavier than me and even doing fit ins with him wore me out like crazy. Even when I did them properly my back would hurt after picking him up a few times and I was always afraid he was going to land on me. Granted, I'm just a beginner in Judo-- might be different for a professional-- but I for one am glad I don't have to compete against someone his size in a real match. |
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Lupin1
Black Belt
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1637
Location: Naples, FL
Styles: Isshinryu
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Depends. In Karate, I'd gladly go up against someone bigger than me, but in Judo it's a different story. We had this one big older guy who learned Judo when he was a boy in Soviet Russia who restarted the same night I joined. Because there weren't too many adults in class I got paired with him a lot and even doing fit ins with him wore me out like crazy. Even when I did them properly my back would hurt after picking him up a few times and I was always afraid he was going to land on me. Granted, I'm just a beginner in Judo-- might be different for a professional-- but I for one am glad I don't have to compete against someone his size in a real match. |
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MasterPain
Black Belt
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Posts: 1949
Location: Parts Unknown
Styles: Bujin Bugei Jutsu, Backyard Kali, Satsui no Hadou
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: |
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UFC 1 was trying to simulate an unarmed fight. Now it is trying to be a fair athletic contest. We can't put defense and a gladiator contest in the same category. Unless you want escaping the cage to be counted as a win.......hmmm
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My fists bleed death. -Akuma |
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CredoTe
Red Belt
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| UFC 1 was trying to simulate an unarmed fight. Now it is trying to be a fair athletic contest. We can't put defense and a gladiator contest in the same category. Unless you want escaping the cage to be counted as a win.......hmmm |
Absolutely... The philosophies behind training are totally different with respect to these two categories. If a Roman legionnaire or centurion was placed in a gladiatorial arena, he would most likely be destroyed. Likewise, though, if a gladiator was placed on the battlefield amidst unit tactics, he would most likely be destroyed.
Similarly, a good caliber self-defense/MA practitioner that's placed in a UFC fight with a highly trained athlete will most likely lose. If that same self-defense/MA practitioner met the same UFC fighter on the street in a situation, he would have a much better chance of defeating the UFC fighter ("much better chance", mind you; never a guarantee; and, the UFC fighter is still a highly skilled machine!  Which usually means....RUN AWAY!  As you hint at in your "escape the cage"...lol)
Of course, a wrench is thrown into it all if either party in either of my scenarios spends time training in the opposite philosophy... (legionnaire could train to become a gladiator and vice versa, etc)
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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I respect the weight class divisions...completely! What I don't respect is when those who are partakers of said venues, think that what they do is far superior to every other style of the MA, as well as those practitioners of said other styles. I've heard it and I've read it and I've exchanged with those of said venues, and to them I say, you'll have no choice on whom will attack you on the streets.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16420
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| MasterPain wrote: |
| UFC 1 was trying to simulate an unarmed fight. Now it is trying to be a fair athletic contest. We can't put defense and a gladiator contest in the same category. Unless you want escaping the cage to be counted as a win.......hmmm |
If it works, I'm no one to knock it.
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**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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CredoTe
Red Belt
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 776
Location: Ohio, USA
Styles: Matsubayashi-Ryu (Shorin-Ryu), Hung Gar (Hung Siu Lum)
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
I respect the weight class divisions...completely! What I don't respect is when those who are partakers of said venues, think that what they do is far superior to every other style of the MA, as well as those practitioners of said other styles. I've heard it and I've read it and I've exchanged with those of said venues, and to them I say, you'll have no choice on whom will attack you on the streets.
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Agreed
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Remember the Tii!
In Life and Death, there is no tap-out... |
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Rateh
Red Belt
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 848
Location: USA
Styles: WTF Taekwondo
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I'm 5'3". I train to defend myself, not stand toe to toe with someone. Should I be attacked, I plan on causing as much damage as possible in as little time as possible, then running away. I am not training to stand there and fight someone.
It's easy to say that you should be able to fight anyone of any size, when you are bigger than I am. A person could easily be more than a foot taller than me and more than twice my weight, in good shape. Trying to stand toe to toe against them would be a very unintelligent idea.
In other words, I feel that weight classes are necessary in sporting. I also feel that smaller people should be able to defend themselves against bigger people, but not in a toe to toe match.
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Your present circumstances don't determine where you can go; they merely determine where you start. - Nido Qubein |
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on the post.
