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shortyafter
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 169

Styles: Kyokushinkai, Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, if you want a rank (as a personal challenge or something like that), find a respectable dojo/instructor and earn it. And if you want to become good at karate / actually focus on what's important, then forgot about rank all together.

But if you're just doing this so you can look good in the eyes of others, well, IDK...
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shortyafter wrote:
IMHO, if you want a rank (as a personal challenge or something like that), find a respectable dojo/instructor and earn it. And if you want to become good at karate / actually focus on what's important, then forgot about rank all together.

But if you're just doing this so you can look good in the eyes of others, well, IDK...


I just answered a simple question. Where does this kick rank technically relative to other practitioners. I got a reply that it's below 1st Dan in Karate (and presumably then TKD) , and referenced a seminar in return where every single black belt apart from the instructor threw sloppy, slow roundhouse kicks.

And I have already mentioned that I am a red belt in TKD, which is brown belt equivalent in Karate.
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barefoot-kohai
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Barcelona (ESP)
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't say.

I never have given much importance to (high) kicks. I have never been able to go higher than my waist, so I have devoted my efforts to perfecting other things: Stance, fist techniques and medium level kicks.

I prefer things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHBg5Kb6gg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0EhzwqbQfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGVQeaS8cHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jEoWCiMTI8 (but not so high)


In case you body allows you, an effective one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU5y9VtCsMk


But, As I see it, belts and performance are different things. There is no correlation between grade and techniques execution.
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513

Styles: Tang soo do

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barefoot-kohai wrote:
Couldn't say.

I never have given much importance to (high) kicks. I have never been able to go higher than my waist, so I have devoted my efforts to perfecting other things: Stance, fist techniques and medium level kicks.

I prefer things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHBg5Kb6gg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0EhzwqbQfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGVQeaS8cHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jEoWCiMTI8 (but not so high)


In case you body allows you, an effective one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU5y9VtCsMk


But, As I see it, belts and performance are different things. There is no correlation between grade and techniques execution.


Excellent selection of clips showing excellent simple effective applications. Although the poor guy with the spinning hook kick in the last video showed us exactly why high kicks are high risk.

I particularly liked the 3rd one, with that Emilio chap showing front kick, and the next one breaking down spinning back kick. There are 2 guys that have taken relatively simple techniques, and refined them to perfection. Surely that is the true spirit of karate, or any martial art.
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Prototype
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Higher Taekwondo forms (black stripe and up) prescripe high kicks, thus I drill high kicks.
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barefoot-kohai
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 23
Location: Barcelona (ESP)
Styles: Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OneKickWonder wrote:
There are 2 guys that have taken relatively simple techniques, and refined them to perfection. Surely that is the true spirit of karate, or any martial art.


One of the most difficult things, the true Philosopher's Stone in martial arts is making things easy.

As a wise boss of mine used to say: The person that uses thousand words to say something that can be said in ten, is capable of many other evils.

Only a piece of advice: Don't be the one in your way.

As Pablo Picasso said at 80: It takes a long time to become young.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To compare ones self or ones technique to a belt is not reasonable. One technique does not qualify one for a specific grade (rank/belt). It's the culmination of years of study, knowledge and skills that an instructor judges a student by and thus grants a grade to signify that students level based on the totality of said skills and knowledge.

This is akin to saying because I can hit a 90 mile an hour fast ball I should be classified as a pro even though I can't throw or catch a ball and do not understand the game. It just doesn't work.

Being able to throw a perfectly executed kick is different from understanding how to do the same in in an actual fight. To be able to punch through a 2' concrete wall is useless if you can not hit your target because you do not understand how to set it up. Its a ridiculous assumption. One technique does not mean anything no matter how well you execute it.

If your looking to find out what level your skills are at I would suggest joining a school and finding out. The instructor after a few months of classes will place you according to knowledge and skill.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barefoot-kohai wrote:
Couldn't say.

I never have given much importance to (high) kicks. I have never been able to go higher than my waist, so I have devoted my efforts to perfecting other things: Stance, fist techniques and medium level kicks.

I prefer things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHBg5Kb6gg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0EhzwqbQfc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGVQeaS8cHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jEoWCiMTI8 (but not so high)


In case you body allows you, an effective one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU5y9VtCsMk


But, As I see it, belts and performance are different things. There is no correlation between grade and techniques execution.


I'm with you on this. I have never found a reason to use high kicks.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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DWx
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6139
Location: UK
Styles: Tae Kwon Do & Yang family Tai Chi

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all due respect Prototype, you post a lot of this type of question in the Korean section too. As we've discussed before, it's almost impossible to determine ability and belt level from one short clip of you kicking. All we can do is provide feedback on what we see and suggestions for how to improve.

One kick does not make a belt level. Honestly I think you would do better to focus your efforts less on comparing yourself to random videos on the internet and more on training yourself. TKD is not about comparing yourself to others all the time. What benefit does it bring to your training to say you are better or worse than a random video on the internet?

For good ITF standard technique you could do much worse then follow GingerNinja's tutorials https://youtu.be/YANw1yTjDeY

Prototype wrote:
Higher Taekwondo forms (black stripe and up) prescripe high kicks, thus I drill high kicks.

The forms require high kicks but at the same time you need the correct mechanics. If I had one student doing Hwarang with head height kicks but poor technique and another student good technique but at hip height, the second student would be better.
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MatsuShinshii
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 1423
Location: Kentucky
Styles: Machimura Suidi Rokudan, Ryukyu Kenpo, Kobudo, Judo

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
shortyafter wrote:
IMHO, if you want a rank (as a personal challenge or something like that), find a respectable dojo/instructor and earn it. And if you want to become good at karate / actually focus on what's important, then forgot about rank all together.

But if you're just doing this so you can look good in the eyes of others, well, IDK...


I just answered a simple question. Where does this kick rank technically relative to other practitioners. I got a reply that it's below 1st Dan in Karate (and presumably then TKD) , and referenced a seminar in return where every single black belt apart from the instructor threw sloppy, slow roundhouse kicks.

And I have already mentioned that I am a red belt in TKD, which is brown belt equivalent in Karate.


A lot of assumptions. You're trying to make comparisons and that just doesn't work. Just because some random practitioner from some other random art is wearing a BB doesn't mean he meets the requirements of every art or even every school within a certain art. To say that this technique or that is of this or that level is ridiculous. Who says that it's of a certain level? You? What do you base your information on? Have you studied under an instructor that has very high standards? Have you asked them where you rank? By your own admission your a red belt. What years of study do you draw upon to make such assumptions of what level a technique is at? Kind of arrogant if you think about it.

Your statement on your level vs Karate... what art? who is the instructor? what are their standards. This is an assumption based on generic statistics.

Why is it so important to judge yourself against others? Are they going to take the test for you? Are you building your case in case you don't pass your test? Are you going to show your instructor these video's of others and point to that and to validate what you believe?

This is not in the spirit of the martial arts. Your responsible for yourself. Your instructor doesn't judge you based on how well or poorly someone else executes a technique. I think you have the wrong impression. Techniques and the execution of said techniques is just a part of what your are judged on. A small part. Your character will also be judged. Arguing with others about what level you think your at, when they are at or well above that level, doesn't show respect for those that took the time to give you advice or their opinion and it certainly doesn't show humility.

Tearing down someone else to make yourself look good is NOT a trait of a Yudansha. Period!

Your asking for others opinions. When you don't get the feed back you wanted maybe that should tell you something. We are all here to learn and to pass on the knowledge that we have accumulated over years (and in some cases a life time) in the spirit of becoming better and helping others become better.

I've been studying for over 3 decades. With all due respect; if you were my student and showed that lack of respect and humility I would not grade you to Shodan no matter how excellent your kick was. Bottom line.. your kick might very well be at the level you think it is but "you're" not at that level.

Ask for advice in the same spirit that others give it. They are not knocking you by telling you the truth and they are certainly not answering you because they have nothing better to do. They do so because they love the arts and wish to help others. Instead of defending what "you" believe to be true take this and use it to become better. After all that is why we are all here.

In life we get knocked down a lot and get very little affirmation. You have two choices; fight with everyone that disagree's with you or take what you can from it and improve. My advice... join a school and find out what your asking of the members here. NO ONE is going to be able to grade you off of 2 second video's so you'll never get what you seek until you find an instructor who can judge you for your skills, all of them.

Just my 2 cents for what its worth.
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The person who succeeds is not the one who holds back, fearing failure, nor the one who never fails-but the one who moves on in spite of failure.
Charles R. Swindoll
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