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Underdog
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 10


PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 10:52 am    Post subject: What can be done if... Reply with quote

A person who is trained and cetified as a black belt is several different types of martial arts (Ju Jitsu, Karate, Tae Kwan Do, etc) hits an individual, say a female, and threatens to come after another person and do bodily harm to them. Can they be charged with a crime under the premises of being a letahal weapon? I guess it depends what state you live in. Can anyone give insight? Thanks..
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CloudDragon
Purple Belt
Purple Belt

Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 579
Location: Missouri, USA
Styles: Karate, Jujitsu, Kenpo, Taekwondo, Kendo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the person only threatens, then yes. However if the person threatens with a loaded weapon then no. As far as being a lethal weapon, I have never found a case where martial arts worked against a person in a true self defense situation. If anyone knows about an actual case, please let me know.
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SBN Doug
KF VIP

Joined: 04 Nov 2001
Posts: 3767
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Kuk Sool Won

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two related topics they may help.

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=7659

http://www.karateforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=12926&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10
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Red J
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 11 Aug 2002
Posts: 2278
Location: WPB, FL
Styles: Shaolin Kempo Sandan

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO: It sounds like battery for the first count and assault/threat for the second (in Florida an assault is verbal, in other areas it has a physical component to it). The level of training doesn't come into play so much as the level of injury sustained which could elevate a simple battery to an aggrevated battery. The lethal weapon premise is a myth in my book.

Now, if the prosecution knew that someone was a trained and capable martial artist, I would think that it would help the victim's case especially if it was a smaller, weaker person. In criminal or civil court a good attorney could have a field day with you. "So Mr. Blackbelt of seven styles and a MMA champ, do you really expect us to believe that your death threats and then beating of this 90 pound grandmother was self defense because she intimidated you with her oversized purse and teacup poodle? As a martial artist aren't you taught to use your skill as a last resort? I recommend the maximum sentence/award to teach this bully a lesson." Of course, a good defense lawyer would never subject his client to this humiliation and would probably work a plea to a lesser charge or "deal" to keep it out of the court system to avoid unwanted details of someone's life from becoming public record.

I would hope that a person that wears a black belt has learned humility and self restraint, because if they haven't then they give our community a black eye (pardon the pun).

Whew!
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Vito
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 473

Styles: grappling, striking

PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

black belts, and all their limbs, are not legally considered lethal weapons. if your teacher told you that youre in a mcdojo.
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White_Tiger
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 229
Location: Valdosta, GA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lawyer once told me "If you go beyond the point of defending yourself, then you will be judged different than someone who has never had training. Especially if you are Black Belt."
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krzychicano
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Dec 2004
Posts: 1066
Location: Houston
Styles: KSW

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea one of my wifes nieces hit a boy in school after he grabbed her and the cops came to the school and everything. She has a black belt. But the guy touched her first so it was basically self defense. So I guess it depends where you live some places take it more serious than others I would say.
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What the superior man seeks is in himself; what the small man seeks is in others. - Confucius
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Belasko
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Idaho
Styles: Tae Kwon do, some Judo

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that where I'm from when a person does something that makes you afraid or worried that is assault. If they touch you at all when you do not want them to it becomes battery. The point at which it becomes aggravated battery is basically a judgement call based on the length of the medical bill.
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Sam
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1748

Styles: ITF TKD, Wu Shu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who threatens someone else like that is generally breaking the law, but the whole lethal weapon thing is a myth.

The only time MA MIGHT count against someone, is if they did significant damage to an antagonist who was actually trying to retreat.... then the "reasonable force" thing would come in, and sometimes it may be considered we are more able to judge what reasonable force is.
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scottnshelly
KF VIP

Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 715
Location: Ardmore, Oklahoma
Styles: My Style

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone is correct about the myth of the 'lethal weapon' thing. On the other hand, someone with training can inflict more damage than someone without. As Black Belts, we are supposed to be the best at self-control but if someone with years of training loses control, it can be bad.
A fellow I once knew is serving 8 years for beating up his wife. He was a 5th Degree Black Belt in Kenpo. While he wasn't prosecuted more for being a Black Belt, he was able to beat her up worse than a layman would have, hence he got more time.
There are no laws - that I can find - that say 'it is illegal for a trained Black Belt to threaten or attack someone else.'
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