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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:22 am Post subject: |
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if it is only variants of a single technique(all roundhouses), than it cannot be called a martial art because martial art implies that it is system and therefore has more than a single technique.
All martial arts including the most eclectic and recent have more than just one basic technique. To have a system requires having substantial content. Boxing, for instance, consists of only punching but it has 4 different basic punches. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
if it is only variants of a single technique(all roundhouses), than it cannot be called a martial art because martial art implies that it is system and therefore has more than a single technique.
All martial arts including the most eclectic and recent have more than just one basic technique. To have a system requires having substantial content. Boxing, for instance, consists of only punching but it has 4 different basic punches. |
So how many techniques does it need? What is the magic number that makes it qualify? |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| More than one |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| More than one |
So if I add in a reverse punch to my new art of onekickwonder ryu, then it would be a martial art? |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| In the broadest sense, yes it could indeed be considered a martial art. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: |
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So far, we seem to have established that the 'martial' in martial art is misleading, because a martial art doesn't have to be applicable to war fighting in the present age.
We've established also that it has to be a system, with multiple techniques, and some kind of progression.
I can understand all that. Cool.
But then, it does beg the question, we're the soldiers of the various peasant armies from all parts of the world and at all points in history prior to recent times where armies became 'nationalised' for want of a better word. Ie those folks that were just ordinary farmers, blacksmiths, lower class poor folk who would, when required and suitably paid, take their pitch fork or bill hook or whatever tool they had that could also be a weapon, and form up and fight in battle. Were they martial artists? Some were trained. Many more were not. But of those that survived, others would look to them for inspiration. Most likely this is the origin of what we consider today to be martial art, but was it at the time? And if by some implausible circumstance a modern day farm hand were to go into battle with a rake or a pitch fork, would he be a martial artist? |
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Spartacus Maximus
Black Belt
Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 1902
Styles: Shorin ryu
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Merely arming oneself and fighting a battle does not and never has turned an ordinary man into a soldier or a martial artist. Training in a martial art or preparing for battle require a considerable amount of time spent on learning a system with the aim of getting better at it. It is more than just a short stint. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| Merely arming oneself and fighting a battle does not and never has turned an ordinary man into a soldier or a martial artist. Training in a martial art or preparing for battle require a considerable amount of time spent on learning a system with the aim of getting better at it. It is more than just a short stint. |
Actually that's not true. In medieval England for example during saxon times, there were no 'official' armies so to speak. Wealthy lords and dukes would swell their ranks by hiring anyone that was willing to fight for money. It was some time later when it was formalised. That's when 'bill drill' became mandatory for all boys over the age of 13. Bill drill by the way happened on Sunday mornings in the local gathering place, usually a town square or village green. The 'bill' was a bill hook. A farming implement that was a large blade on a stick, with one side of the blade having a hook. It was used for many things, primarily cutting hedgerows. Bill drill was simply the practice of wielding the bill hook in various combat oriented poses. Bill drill became mandatory almost as a form of national service. It was to ensure that should thee boys ever be needed for a battle, at least they'd know how to hold a bladed farming implement. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| Merely arming oneself and fighting a battle does not and never has turned an ordinary man into a soldier or a martial artist. Training in a martial art or preparing for battle require a considerable amount of time spent on learning a system with the aim of getting better at it. It is more than just a short stint. |
With this noted, and continuing the devil's advocacy that seems to be defining this thread, then when does a white belt become a Martial Artist?
Is it when the student decides to dedicate themselves to learning the system? Does it require a certain amount of training time? Is one not a Martial Artist until they can display proficiency in a style?
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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sensei8
KF Sensei
Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 16427
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| Merely arming oneself and fighting a battle does not and never has turned an ordinary man into a soldier or a martial artist. Training in a martial art or preparing for battle require a considerable amount of time spent on learning a system with the aim of getting better at it. It is more than just a short stint. |
With this noted, and continuing the devil's advocacy that seems to be defining this thread, then when does a white belt become a Martial Artist?
Is it when the student decides to dedicate themselves to learning the system? Does it require a certain amount of training time? Is one not a Martial Artist until they can display proficiency in a style? |
I know these questions aren't for me, so please forgive me.
Imho...
A person is a MAist from the moment they step unto the floor for class, aka, that white belt, for example.
Proficiency achieved through training isn't a parameter for BEING a MAist, not in the slightest. As in any endeavor pursued, there's a plethora of levels of proficiency, aka, beginners, intermediates, and advanced.
That beginner, on their first day, are just as much of a MA as I am, per the manner of which I believe what a MAist is/isn't, after my 53 years on the floor. The question wasn't, What is a proficient MA?? Just, What is a MAist??!!
Back to my mechanic thingy, the mechanic that replaces one part after another until the car's fixed, is just as much of what a mechanic is as a mechanic that fixes a car expeditiously through proper diagnostics; mechanic 'A' isn't as proficient as mechanic 'B', however, they're both mechanics.
_________________
**Proof is on the floor!!! |
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on the post.
