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JazzKicker
Orange Belt
Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 174
Location: NJ
Styles: Hapkido, JKD, TSD
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 Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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Using the word "art" implies creativity and self-expression, beyond the mere practical or functional. Art is not a sport, or simple physical activity, though "martial arts" have those as components.
For me, martial arts are distinguished by having mental and even spiritual aspects. |
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OneKickWonder
Purple Belt
Joined: 17 Feb 2018
Posts: 513
Styles: Tang soo do
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| JazzKicker wrote: |
Using the word "art" implies creativity and self-expression, beyond the mere practical or functional. Art is not a sport, or simple physical activity, though "martial arts" have those as components.
For me, martial arts are distinguished by having mental and even spiritual aspects. |
The word 'art' is slightly misleading these days because it is a word with multiple meanings, one such meaning having become archaic and fallen into obscurity.
Nowadays, art is as you say, most widely taken in the context of creative expression. But it also means skill set. Art is the expression or result of skill.
I love your observation though that art is not a sport. Art can be presented through sport, if a strict and objective rating system can be devised, but by definition, as soon as something becomes a sport it becomes restricted. For example, for martial art to be used as sport, we have to say, as a minimum, don't snap your opponents neck or rip his gonads off. Straight away then the art is limited. A good thing in this example, but limited all the same. Whereas the art, if practiced against an imaginary opponent can still have all its full expression of technique and principles. |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| sensei8 wrote: |
| bushido_man96 wrote: |
| Spartacus Maximus wrote: |
| Merely arming oneself and fighting a battle does not and never has turned an ordinary man into a soldier or a martial artist. Training in a martial art or preparing for battle require a considerable amount of time spent on learning a system with the aim of getting better at it. It is more than just a short stint. |
With this noted, and continuing the devil's advocacy that seems to be defining this thread, then when does a white belt become a Martial Artist?
Is it when the student decides to dedicate themselves to learning the system? Does it require a certain amount of training time? Is one not a Martial Artist until they can display proficiency in a style? |
I know these questions aren't for me, so please forgive me.
Imho...
A person is a MAist from the moment they step unto the floor for class, aka, that white belt, for example.
Proficiency achieved through training isn't a parameter for BEING a MAist, not in the slightest. As in any endeavor pursued, there's a plethora of levels of proficiency, aka, beginners, intermediates, and advanced.
That beginner, on their first day, are just as much of a MA as I am, per the manner of which I believe what a MAist is/isn't, after my 53 years on the floor. The question wasn't, What is a proficient MA?? Just, What is a MAist??!!
Back to my mechanic thingy, the mechanic that replaces one part after another until the car's fixed, is just as much of what a mechanic is as a mechanic that fixes a car expeditiously through proper diagnostics; mechanic 'A' isn't as proficient as mechanic 'B', however, they're both mechanics.
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These questions are absolutely for you, Bob, and anyone else with a take on them!
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 30188
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE, Police Krav Maga, SPEAR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| OneKickWonder wrote: |
| JazzKicker wrote: |
Using the word "art" implies creativity and self-expression, beyond the mere practical or functional. Art is not a sport, or simple physical activity, though "martial arts" have those as components.
For me, martial arts are distinguished by having mental and even spiritual aspects. |
The word 'art' is slightly misleading these days because it is a word with multiple meanings, one such meaning having become archaic and fallen into obscurity.
Nowadays, art is as you say, most widely taken in the context of creative expression. But it also means skill set. Art is the expression or result of skill.
I love your observation though that art is not a sport. Art can be presented through sport, if a strict and objective rating system can be devised, but by definition, as soon as something becomes a sport it becomes restricted. For example, for martial art to be used as sport, we have to say, as a minimum, don't snap your opponents neck or rip his gonads off. Straight away then the art is limited. A good thing in this example, but limited all the same. Whereas the art, if practiced against an imaginary opponent can still have all its full expression of technique and principles. |
I'd go further and say that even in training the art has to be restricted. You still can't snap necks and rip off gonads in the training hall. You can try to simulate it to the best of your ability, but it still isn't real. Hence, the reason Jigoro Kano altered his style from Jiujitsu to Judo, for more continuous and realistic training.
Nor do I think the spiritual/philosophical aspects are necessary for something to be an "art." More often than not, the spiritual aspects we find in many eastern arts are the direct result of the cultural influence of the person who founded the style. Nothing like that is an inherent part of things like neck-snapping or gonad-ripping.
_________________
www.haysgym.com
http://www.sunyis.com/
www.aikidoofnorthwestkansas.com |
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