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singularity6
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Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prototype wrote:
Headgear does not prevent head trauma, the brain shakes regardless. Headgear is removed from the Boxing Olympics because studies found that they increase the risk for CTE.


You know, I think I knew that. Today hasn't been my finest of days.
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 385
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As mentioned prior; it very much depends on the gym, but there are a few rules of thumb regarding a good gym, versus a bad gym.

1. Sufficient drill work: One should be learning the ins and outs through drill work, before you even get into the ring to spar. You should have some knowledge of how to protect yourself with head-movement, and foot-work, as well as covering up before you start sparring.

2. Appropriate gear for the task at hand: Right weight of gloves, helmets, and other relevant padding for the level of intended contact.

3. Appropriate level of sparring; for someone boxing for fitness, regular hard-sparring is a terrible idea. Even for a professional, far too much hard sparring, is a terrible idea. Regular sparring is good, but hard-contact should be reserved for preparing for an actual bout. Otherwise, light sparring, and drilling is enough for skill development.

4. Always be supervised; there is nothing more dangerous that two people in a ring, sparring, unsupervised.

5. Be conditioned; you should not be allowed in the ring without being sufficiently conditioned for the rigours. This means you should have some time under your belt at the gym, and they should know what you can take. You should not be thrown in the deep end, regardless of prior experience.

6. Limit head contact to when you are training for an upcoming bout, and do not engage in boxing with head-contact too close to the bout. One can get away with just allowing the head to be threatened, but require the punches to be pulled.

All the above are just rules of thumb, not a gold standard, and probably better advice for a gym owner than an attendant. For the gym goer, I would say trust your gut, and if you feel it is dangerous for you; do not spar.

Regarding Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy; the evidence is that for people competing at an Olympic level, or as a professional, that helmets do little to impact the outcome of whether they develop CTE or not. Now; these individuals compete so often, they receive regular levels of head trauma. However, in the Gym, the primary concern is more immediate injuries such as bad cuts or broken bones. No one wants to cancel a bout because they got cut up sparring.

Regarding the Olympics; it is a lot of boxing over a very short period, depending on how far you go. Thus, the thinking is that it is safer for a boxer to be stopped earlier in the tournament through a TKO, than perhaps continue through what would have otherwise finished a bout due to the helmet, and suffer more unnecessary trauma and potentially concussions.
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Prototype
Green Belt
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 367


PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
As mentioned prior; it very much depends on the gym, but there are a few rules of thumb regarding a good gym, versus a bad gym.

1. Sufficient drill work: One should be learning the ins and outs through drill work, before you even get into the ring to spar. You should have some knowledge of how to protect yourself with head-movement, and foot-work, as well as covering up before you start sparring.

2. Appropriate gear for the task at hand: Right weight of gloves, helmets, and other relevant padding for the level of intended contact.

3. Appropriate level of sparring; for someone boxing for fitness, regular hard-sparring is a terrible idea. Even for a professional, far too much hard sparring, is a terrible idea. Regular sparring is good, but hard-contact should be reserved for preparing for an actual bout. Otherwise, light sparring, and drilling is enough for skill development.

4. Always be supervised; there is nothing more dangerous that two people in a ring, sparring, unsupervised.

5. Be conditioned; you should not be allowed in the ring without being sufficiently conditioned for the rigours. This means you should have some time under your belt at the gym, and they should know what you can take. You should not be thrown in the deep end, regardless of prior experience.

6. Limit head contact to when you are training for an upcoming bout, and do not engage in boxing with head-contact too close to the bout. One can get away with just allowing the head to be threatened, but require the punches to be pulled.

All the above are just rules of thumb, not a gold standard, and probably better advice for a gym owner than an attendant. For the gym goer, I would say trust your gut, and if you feel it is dangerous for you; do not spar.

Regarding Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy; the evidence is that for people competing at an Olympic level, or as a professional, that helmets do little to impact the outcome of whether they develop CTE or not. Now; these individuals compete so often, they receive regular levels of head trauma. However, in the Gym, the primary concern is more immediate injuries such as bad cuts or broken bones. No one wants to cancel a bout because they got cut up sparring.

Regarding the Olympics; it is a lot of boxing over a very short period, depending on how far you go. Thus, the thinking is that it is safer for a boxer to be stopped earlier in the tournament through a TKO, than perhaps continue through what would have otherwise finished a bout due to the helmet, and suffer more unnecessary trauma and potentially concussions.


Why do people in the Olympics recieved a lot of head trauma? The rules don't reward knockdown. It's much more calm than professional boxing and more technique focused. Btw, headgear was mostly banned because it was found that the boxers subconciously neglected their guard more, thus hot punched more.


Last edited by Prototype on Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I don't want to hurt anybody but I do want to know if I possess t he ability to.. If that makes sense. I have been holding back in Karate training and have no idea if I have potential or not. I will never compete but I would like to see if I got power and skill
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
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Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To reach that level, you have to compete, and competing means getting hit in the head a lot. You are not getting noticed for Olympic selection without a winning record, so that means competing as regularly as is feasible.

One of those cases where there were a number of reasons; but the over riding logic being that helmets were not contributing to safety.

Well; when you are ready for a hard spar, just ask for one. If you want the test, go for it; no one is going to line it up for you without being asked.
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Spartacus Maximus
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Joined: 01 Jun 2014
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Styles: Shorin ryu

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Contact definatly has its purpose. However before defining how much contact should be acceptable it is a good idea to clearly define why there should be any contact. For a drill or training bout meant to practise a set techniques, full hard contact is not necessary. In this case the point is not to knock each other out, but to correctly apply a move.

Contact without some level of risk is not possible there will always be a certain level of risk.The question is how much risk is reasonably acceptable by everyone involved. Obviously contact along with the level of risk must be adapted to fit the skill level of the participants. Protective gear is worn to protect against accidents, not to replace common sense for safety in the ring or the gym.
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Prototype
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Joined: 15 Dec 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wado Heretic wrote:
To reach that level, you have to compete


So you don't think I could develop into a decent (by gym standards) boxer by only training in the intermediate level group? Advanced group is only for competitors and that's out of the question for me. I'm 28 years old with no aspirations to compete no matter how good I might turn out to be. Not worth it for me.
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Wado Heretic
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Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 385
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That statement was regarding Olympic level boxers suffering a lot of head trauma; especially with Olympic boxing now being open to professionals. At that elite level, you have to compete a lot, so are subject to more regular, hard contact. Comparatively speaking; amateurs, and hobbyists, who might only compete once in a blue moon for fun, do not receive any where near as much head trauma. So, the use of helmets to prevent otherwise superficial wounds such as cuts, or more immediate injuries such as broken jaws, makes sense at that level where the onset of CTE is not a realistic concern.

You can probably develop into a decent, club-level, boxer from a technical perspective; in that you can probably develop solid technique. My point being; if you want to the know the answer to a question, you have to ask the question. If you want to know if you have fighting ability; you have to fight. Be that, just trying a hard spar in the gym, or trying to get into an actual competitive bout.
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