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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:38 pm    Post subject: When is a good time to start weapons training? Reply with quote

I know this is can be complex question, and I plan to start after I feel I am grounded enough in non-weapons training. I was just looking for a ballpark answer. I am testing for yellow belt in Karate this month and I have been training since February.

Of course I am looking forward to training with weapons, and currently considering the bo staff, knife, escrima, and tonfa. I will choose one. I can only envision myself rupturing a testicle and needing stitches in my head if I chose nunchuks. My past weapons training is pistol focused.
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Lupin1
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 1603
Location: NH USA
Styles: Isshinryu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We start weapons training at brown belt for adults-- junior black belt for youth. My instructor thinks it's best to get a solid foundation in empty hand karate first, but recognizes the benefits of weapons training on developing strength, which is why he starts it before Shodan, but not until someone's been training at least three years.

It's up to your sensei. Different schools/systems do it differently, so your teacher is the one to ask about how it's done at your school.
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JR 137
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 2373
Location: In the dojo
Styles: Seido Juku

PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My previous organization started bo basics at advanced green belt (one before brown), and the first bo kata at brown belt. My current organization starts bo at 1st dan.

Weapons training gives a different perspective IMO. It forces you to move differently, and it improves hand-eye coordination. I think brown belt (if that's the one before black) is a good time to start. We saw huge jumps in performance after a month or so of bo basics in my old school.

Some schools have weapons as part of the curriculum, some have an entirely different system taught with different belt ranks than the regular karate program, and some schools don't teach it at all. It all depends on the organization and/or CI as to when, how, and what weapons are taught.

I don't think there's truly a right or wrong way. I'd prefer my old Sensei's way (after he left his organization and went on his own) - weapons are part of the karate curriculum, and there's an entirely separate weapons program. The separate program goes much further in depth with more advanced kata and kumite, and more weapons overall. The karate curriculum has some weapons kata and kumite by rank (starting at brown belt?). Students can do either program or both, and they're both taught by the same instructors.
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just trying to get a ballpark. I assumed it would be at least brown belt. I do want to make sure I am grounded before I try to add a whole new set of complexities.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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Zaine
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1660
Location: Dallas, TX
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Long Fist, American Street Karate, Mantis, Schola Saint George (Fiorian sword fighting)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends on when you're ready and when the organization you're a part of feels your ready. I started at 8th kyu with bo and didn't learn another weapon until 4th kyu. Regardless of whether or not you think your ready, your sensei will know when you're ready. Talk to your sensei about it, and don't worry so much about ruptured testicles. Depending on your style, the nunchaku shouldn't be near those. I will say that most styles have you train with a myriad of weapons, and not just one of your choice. Though you can certainly focus on one in your personal time, and after Shodan.
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Harlan
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts
Styles: Goju Ryu, Matayoshi kobudo, beginner

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on your school/style.

Some schools want a solid foundation in empty-hand, and weapon study is really an adjunct study that complements it. This is probably especially true with styles that have to borrow weapons study from other styles/traditions.

There are other traditions that study weapons either very early on or from day one of study. And schools that just focus on weapons (Matayoshi kobudo, for example).
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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info guys.
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"Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know." ~ Lao-tzu, Tao Te Ching

"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14406
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're asking when should you begin to learn weapons/Kobudo, I'd say, whenever your instructor says so, and not anytime sooner.

If you're asking when does weapon/Kobudo training begin in "your" style, I'd say that our Kobudo training begins in 6th Kyu/Green Belt.



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twistkick kid
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Posts: 171
Location: San Diego, CA
Styles: Tae Kwon Do, Shaolin Kempo

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my old place of training didn't start weapons till a student was Junior Black Belt or green belt.

where I study currently allows you to train with weapons at purple belt (if you're under 14) and orange belt if you're 14 and up. most students I work with don't choose to study weapons for self-defence, rather, they learn the forms for tournament competitions
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Wado Heretic
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 23 May 2014
Posts: 387
Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Styles: Wado-Ryu , Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu (Kodokan), RyuKyu Kobojutsu

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue as soon as possible; weapon training helps in developing o-waza, power, speed, and with regards to partner work helps develop timing, distancing, and the principles of tai sabaki in general. Plus, it helps develop a healthy respect for the danger of weaponry, and pain, early on.

However, I would also state that sometimes it is wise to forbid weapon training until later in training. Sometimes people just do not wish to do weapons, and will not consider them a worth while venture, until after a degree of investment in training. Also, until you are sure of a student's innate competency and ability, you as a teacher might not wish to put anything as dangerous as a weapon in their hands.

Annoying; as usual, it will come down to the individual student. The best compromise I ever found was to make the minimum age to train with weapons 14, and offer kobujutsu as a session in of itself that people could come to if they wanted to put the time in. I also do not consider weapons "mandatory" until Sankyu, but that it will not be grading material until Ikkyu.
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