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goforit1
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 5
Location: USA
Styles: BJJ, Muay Thai, Karate, Kickboxing

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject: Which school makes the most sense? Reply with quote

In a recent post I asked for advice on getting back into karate after many years. Most responses advised me to explore the local martial arts scene and see what is offered in the area. I want to thank everyone for their responses. Lots of good ideas. Here's what I found. There are two Martial Arts schools nearby. I found one that teaches To-Shin Do. I am not familiar with it but it appears to be a form of Ninjutsu.

That is their only style. Not sure I want to be a Ninja, but I will explore it. http://www.pataskalamartialarts.com/ They are promoting a summer event and they have a ninja on the promo who reminds me of the ninjas in the movie "The Octagon". They require you to wear socks which I find interesting. I thought most dojos require practice in bare feet.

Another local school offers Aikido, BJJ, Kickboxing, Arnis / Escrima, Shotokan Karate, Bo(staff)-Bokken(sword)-Tonfa-Nunchaku and a Street Defense class. http://www.ullomsmartialarts.com/ Now that's a smorgasbord of options. I think I'm leaning toward that school, but will need to meet them first. I like the variety of options, but am unfamiliar with most of their styles.

I am familiar with their Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Kickboxing. I've helped out at http://teamtenbears.com/ off and on and they offer Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Kickboxing. From that experience, I'm not sure my back can handle the grappling component of BJJ or Aikido though. I have had some lower back injuries that might make those a bit of a stretch for me.

Both Martial Arts studios offer a form of karate. Do you think the To-Shin Do or the Shotokan Karate would be closest to the Shir-in-Ryu I studied in the past?
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14332
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, visit each school, more than once, to get a sense of what they have to offer. If you've already visited each school of interest, then you know more about the school than any of us KF members. Go with your gut!!

From the links you've provided, I'd go with the second of your links due to the Shotokan, which might be the closest of what you've studied in the past.

The first link, I'd not entertain because, as you've already stated, you don't want to be a ninja and this school has that written all over it. Imho, their grappling pictures illustrate a lot of incorrect techniques, and that alone, would cause me to not join that school. Pictures worth a thousand words, and several visits would solidify what I already expect, but, visits might prove me wrong.

The third link, if not for your back problems, I'd certainly consider that school, and not for this reason, because of a very solid lineage. What the pictures demonstrate is a firm grasp on grappling fundamentals, which is much more than what I can say about the ninja school. Having a good understanding of BJJ will be beneficial should an altercation end up on the ground, and the chances are that that's exact where most fights end up.

Visit each school as many times as it takes to answer your concerns. Good luck in your search, take your time because there's no since in rushing an important decision.



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Nidan Melbourne
KF Sempai
KF Sempai

Joined: 21 Aug 2013
Posts: 2202
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Styles: Goju-Ryu, BJJ, Balintawak Arnis

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Visit each school and have a discussion with the instructors there along with some students to get their perspective.

Personally I find that the school that offers the more options would keep you interested and able to attend more than 1 martial art.
But when you speak to the instructors ask them about who teaches what and their ranks.

Also make sure you look at the cost vs. what is offered. I had a look at the site and saw only 1 shotokan class per week.
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IcemanSK
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Styles: Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
Again, visit each school, more than once, to get a sense of what they have to offer. If you've already visited each school of interest, then you know more about the school than any of us KF members. Go with your gut!!

From the links you've provided, I'd go with the second of your links due to the Shotokan, which might be the closest of what you've studied in the past.

The first link, I'd not entertain because, as you've already stated, you don't want to be a ninja and this school has that written all over it. Imho, their grappling pictures illustrate a lot of incorrect techniques, and that alone, would cause me to not join that school. Pictures worth a thousand words, and several visits would solidify what I already expect, but, visits might prove me wrong.

The third link, if not for your back problems, I'd certainly consider that school, and not for this reason, because of a very solid lineage. What the pictures demonstrate is a firm grasp on grappling fundamentals, which is much more than what I can say about the ninja school. Having a good understanding of BJJ will be beneficial should an altercation end up on the ground, and the chances are that that's exact where most fights end up.

Visit each school as many times as it takes to answer your concerns. Good luck in your search, take your time because there's no since in rushing an important decision.




This.
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Montana
Red Belt
Red Belt

Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 823
Location: Formerly Kalispell, Montana, now Spokane, WA
Styles: Shorin Ryu Matsumura Kenpo & Kobudo

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My personal opinion is..any dojo that says they are teaching Ninjutsu, RUN, don't walk, the other direction!

I'm older than a lot of you on this forum and have been involved in the arts since 1975. I saw the Ninja craze of the late 1970's-1980's, including Stephen Hayes rise to American Ninja prominence.

Mr. Hayes claimed back then to have visited Japan solely for the purpose of learning the secret art of Ninjutsu. He supposedly asked around and followed leads here and there until one day running into a Ninjutsu Grand Master that agreed to teach him.

Stop and think about it people..Ninjutsu is a system that was so secret, the Japanese government outlawed it with the penalty of DEATH to anyone caught practising it! It remained largely forgotten and reached the status of "mythical", but along comes Mr. Hayes, an American, finds a Grand Master of it by just asking around, and is taught all the secrets???

I'm sorry, but I doubt it.

Black Belt Mag had hundreds of articles about Ninjutsu and Stephen Hayes in the 80's. Anybody with half a gram of common sense would have looked at the techdniques that were displayed there and laughed.

I had the opportunity to ask the head of my system in 1978, Sensei Kuda Yuichi from Okinawa, what he thought about Ninjutsu and whether it was authentic or not. He rolled his eyes, made a "Harumph" sound and basically flew it off as a joke.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Montana wrote:
My personal opinion is..any dojo that says they are teaching Ninjutsu, RUN, don't walk, the other direction!
I'm older than a lot of you on this forum and have been involved in the arts since 1975. I saw the Ninja craze of the late 1970's-1980's, including Stephen Hayes rise to American Ninja prominence.

Mr. Hayes claimed back then to have visited Japan solely for the purpose of learning the secret art of Ninjutsu. He supposedly asked around and followed leads here and there until one day running into a Ninjutsu Grand Master that agreed to teach him.

Stop and think about it people..Ninjutsu is a system that was so secret, the Japanese government outlawed it with the penalty of DEATH to anyone caught practising it! It remained largely forgotten and reached the status of "mythical", but along comes Mr. Hayes, an American, finds a Grand Master of it by just asking around, and is taught all the secrets???

I'm sorry, but I doubt it.

Black Belt Mag had hundreds of articles about Ninjutsu and Stephen Hayes in the 80's. Anybody with half a gram of common sense would have looked at the techdniques that were displayed there and laughed.

I had the opportunity to ask the head of my system in 1978, Sensei Kuda Yuichi from Okinawa, what he thought about Ninjutsu and whether it was authentic or not. He rolled his eyes, made a "Harumph" sound and basically flew it off as a joke.


This too....

Don't find a whole lot about this Jim Rosenthal guy. I'm always immediately skeptical of any BJJ instructor that titles themselves "sensei."

But... that doesn't mean hes a phony either. At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding, so show up and take a few classes. If you've been at a legit BJJ school in the past, you'll quickly figure out what the deal is with this guy.
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JohnASE
Green Belt
Green Belt

Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 492
Location: SoCal

PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what you and others in this thread have said, it sounds like the second school is the best option for you, but if you're still considering the first, I suggest you visit both before making a final decision.

I'm trying to be unbiased here, but I have a longtime customer that's a Stephen Hayes dojo, and I've met the man on a couple of occasions, as well as his wife, who I believe is from Japan. I don't have the background to speak to the quality or authenticity of what he teaches, except to say that the people who run the dojo that I'm familiar with are very nice people who are dedicated to the dojo and its members. Their dojo is a warm and inviting place, and a lot of care obviously went into making it that way.

I'm also pretty familiar with a local smorgasbord type of dojo. They teach a wide variety of arts in a large space that includes a boxing/kickboxing ring in addition to more traditional mats. It can be fun learning a lot of different things, and I would recommend them to anyone not looking form something specific. I'm less sure about the dojo you linked. Looking at their schedule, I'd say they're not so much a smorgasbord, as much as an Aikido dojo with a lot of other things mixed in. That's fine, if you want Aikido, but if your focus is any of the others, class time is limited. Either way, it could easily be a great place to train.

Visit both to really see what they're like, and ask whether you can watch a class.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2146


PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cannot speak on behalf of the Ninjitsu club. So far on this thread it's bearly hanging on.

There are stealth benefits from learning ninjitsu, that can surprisingly benefit a martial artist.

Don't go into ninjitsu with a closed mind, then it's just a waste of time and money.

The socks as they have been called earlier are Tabby boots. They are designed like a mitten that cover the feet. The space between the big to and the next toe, is so a ninja can stand on the hilt, with one foot, so as to peer over a wall.

Ninjitsu deals with intelligence gathering, so they also learn how to memorize interior and exterior locations for possible entrances and exits.

Ninjas learn the art of invisibility, that is camouflage tactics.

Ninjitsu is also related to tactical ambushing and assassinations; hopefully just learning it for historical curiosity.

Just for fun on the advanced level of ninjitsu, to run along rooftops in the moonlight.
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singularity6
Pre-Black Belt
Pre-Black Belt

Joined: 26 Jun 2017
Posts: 958
Location: Michigan
Styles: Jidokwan Taekwondo and Hapkido, Yoshokai Aikido, ZNIR Iaido, Kendo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dunno if any of you can tell at this point, but I'm reading through some old threads that seemed interesting.

Ultimately, I'd pick the school that resonated with me most on a personal level. Some styles may be less "authentic" than others, but that's not always a big deal. If the people teaching at the school had any real martial arts training, and know how to teach, you'll learn something.

As far as "ninjutsu" is concerned, I don't think there really is an ancient, authentic art. I think a lot of people worked really hard at integrating standard tactical training with some real martial arts with parkour and some flashy stuff found on TV to create a new art. Does it look fun? Do you really care about its origins? What do you really want out of the journey you're about to embark on?
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