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Blood Eagle
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 74
Location: DENMARK!!!
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 Posted: Tue May 29, 2001 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Iv'e heard that it was the egyptians, that started the first trainings in selfdefense.
Or was it only the Asian people?
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Fear is just a feeling that you have to overcome, it cannot hurt you. Only panic is a deadly act! |
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Patrick
KF Administrator
Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 28758
Location: Los Angeles, California
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Blood Eagle
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 74
Location: DENMARK!!!
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2001 4:33 am Post subject: |
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Well ok, thanks anyway 
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Fear is just a feeling that you have to overcome, it cannot hurt you. Only panic is a deadly act! |
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jdash
KF VIP
Joined: 06 May 2001
Posts: 149
Location: Pasadena, MD, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2001 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Don't know how much truth it has but I have been told that while most people believe it all started in places like China, Korea, Japan, etc. I have been told that it really originated in India? Could be true, not sure...I think my sensei said it so he probably knows what he is talking about (at least for my style).
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jdoub
Yellow Belt
Joined: 28 May 2001
Posts: 27
Location: SF Bay Area, USA
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2001 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the origins of Martial Arts...
You can get some good reference information from my web site (http://www.heiwa-ryu.org) under the Asian Martial Arts link. But keep in mind a few things:
1. The Greeks had their own stuff
2. So did the Egyptians
3. So did just about everyone else...
Archery is a MA, as is Horsemanship, Fencing, and Riflemarksmanship. Unarmed combative skills are only one category of Martial Arts. The Taoists are credited by some as developing the predecessor to Tai Chi Ch'uan before 1000 BC, yet the Hindu culture also has an "ancient" art as well.
It will be debated much the same as the Chicken and the Egg.
Cheers!!
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John E. Doub, Jr.
Heiwa-Ryu Martial Arts Academy
http://www.heiwa-ryu.org
mailto:jdjr@heiwa-ryu.org |
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Blood Eagle
Yellow Belt
Joined: 26 May 2001
Posts: 74
Location: DENMARK!!!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Oh you mean, like every country may practice the same sport but all have a different unique style?
For a couple of months ago I went on a Jiu-jitsu training weekend with our swedish friendship club.
Their style was much different than ours, here in Denmark were much better at throwing and netralizing an enemy without using fists and feet. But in sweden they focused on using kicks and throwing fast agile punches.
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Taesujutsudrw
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 Jun 2001
Posts: 179
Location: Metro Atlanta(Smyrna) Ga.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2001 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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The first known "martail art" was actully an olympic contest.
It is call Pakrantion(pa-kran-tion)
It hase been dated back as far back a 798 B.C.E. of Course there may be Chinese system that old alos..but this has been found on pottery of that period.
The Shoa-lin system originated from India..when the Buddhist monk Bodhidarma came from India acroos the mountians to China..he watched the animals.
When he arrived at the temple..he found the monks in por physical health..so he started A training regimen that would become known as the Shao-lin arts.
Wing Chun, was created by a Shao-lin nun, and named after her first student.
Just some thoughts.
Peace, 
Tae
_________________
Kyoshi Deborah R. Williams 7th Dan
Founder/Senoir Instructor Tae Su Jutsu
Board member International Martial arts Association.
"Before destruction one's heart is haughty, but humility goes before honor."
Proverbs 18:12 |
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iamrushman
KF VIP
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Posts: 1923
Location: ft. lauderdale,florida
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2001 8:44 am Post subject: |
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this topic is very interesting and i think all of you should be commended for all the infomation you have come up with so far. i am learning so much. please continue to enlighten me with your knowledge.
"you don't know what you don't know"
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rushman (karate forums sensei)
3rd dan wtf/kukkiwon
"saying nothing...sometimes says the most"--e. dickerson |
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jdoub
Yellow Belt
Joined: 28 May 2001
Posts: 27
Location: SF Bay Area, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2001 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Tae-san,
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On 2001-06-17 22:50, Taesujutsudrw wrote:
The first known "martail art" was actully an olympic contest. It is call[ed] Pakrantion(pa-kran-tion) |
As you say the Pankrantion, also spelled Pankration, was a competition between warriors, but IMHO that does not constitute a Martial Art. The combative skills trained and developed could be considered the Martial Art. To say that Pankration is a Martial Art is like saying that the UFC, K-1, and Vale Tudo are Martial Arts.
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On 2001-06-17 22:50, Taesujutsudrw wrote:
It hase been dated back as far back a 798 B.C.E. of Course there may be Chinese system that old alos... |
Again, as you say there is a Chinese system that dates back further; it is your own Tai Chi Ch'uan.
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On 2001-06-17 22:50, Taesujutsudrw wrote:
The Shoa-lin system originated from India..when the Buddhist monk Bodhidarma came from India across the mountians to China..he watched the animals. |
There were two Shaolin Temples; one to the North and one to the South. One temple housed the Buddhist monks, while the other housed the Taoist monks. There is still much debate as to what exactly did Bodhidarma bring to the Buddhist temple; was it a Indian Martial Art? If so, why is it not found in India still today? The Taoists had been working on Tai Chi Ch'uan (aka - Wu Dang Boxing, Monk Fist Boxing, and 36/37 Postures) since before 1000 B.C.; review the Yellow Emperor's Medicinal Classic that makes reference to the meridians. Only some of the Buddhist Martial Systems follow the animal forms; animals do not punch and kick. The Taoist Tai Chi Ch'uan does not follow an animal form and attacks the meridians on the body.
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On 2001-06-17 22:50, Taesujutsudrw wrote:
When he arrived at the temple..he found the monks in por physical health..so he started A training regimen that would become known as the Shao-lin arts. |
Others have thought that perhaps Bodhidarma, upon seeing the lack medative dicipline the monks, had introduced muscle change exercises; some think that this is known today as the 8 Pieces of Brocade (aka - a style of Chi Kung or Qigong).
The challenge (for all of us) with understanding the history of the various Martial Arts from around the World, is that only until the last 10-15 years has there been an increase in the number of books available on the subject. In many cases the earlier books were not well documented and it has been later in the last decade where there has been quite a bit more research and information available to the Martial Art community.
To everyone:
Remember that "paper does not refuse ink" and so the web does not refuse typing. Do not take what I or Tae-san state as absolute. Do your own study. Come to know and understand yourself better through diligent disciplined practice. Read everything you can, make notes, and compare. Understand that some of your sources may be biased by their own education. Challenge your teachers, respectfully, in the interest of learning all that you can from them.
A teacher should be teaching with the intent of making their students better than they are.
Respectfully.
John
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John E. Doub, Jr.
Heiwa-Ryu Martial Arts Academy
http://www.heiwa-ryu.org
mailto:jdjr@heiwa-ryu.org |
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Taesujutsudrw
Orange Belt
Joined: 15 Jun 2001
Posts: 179
Location: Metro Atlanta(Smyrna) Ga.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2001 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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My history of the arts..comes from going to the countries..and talking to the poeple who study them..
Tae Su Jutsu has nothing to do with Tai Chi.
The history on Tai Chi came from one Grandmaster Chow..who has taight it for over 40 yrs..in Hong Kong. He told my that it can not be accurately dated Back betoun 600 C. E.
So if you feel that is wrong..I am very sorry.
I am only recording what was told to me.
Also Pankrantion is considered an Martial art.
Although it was in the Olympics....The competitors were members of the Armies of Greece..they competed to keep in shape about themsleves.
Again I am only reporting what was told to me by practioners of The arts. Although I personally practice Tai Chi..and Qi Gong..I do not teach it.
I am sorry if you consider the info wrong. IMHO, i had to take the info from the practioners as fact of them knowing their on history...to do otherwise...would have been disrespectful.
Since you have more history than I do...I will not offer any more of what I was told.
Peae be with you,
Tae
_________________
Kyoshi Deborah R. Williams 7th Dan
Founder/Senoir Instructor Tae Su Jutsu
Board member International Martial arts Association.
"Before destruction one's heart is haughty, but humility goes before honor."
Proverbs 18:12 |
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on the post.
