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Drag'n
Orange Belt
Orange Belt

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 224
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Styles: Daidojuku/Kudo ,Muay Thai, TKD.......

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article. I turned to MuayThai after getting really exasperated with the impractical training methods I had been getting at so called traditional dojos for years. Then a while ago I met some guys who practised real Okinawan kenpo.Their enterpretations of the movements were completely diferent to the things I had been taught in Korean and Japanese systems, And waay more efective. It really opened my eyes to what karate was originally intended to be like. The training was realistic and they were also open to encorporating effective techniques from other arts.I trained with them for a while and really got alot out of it. But my body is so accustomed to Muay Thai now that I decided to stick to what I'm doing.
I think when people refer to traditional arts they're generally talking about Japanese and Korean influenced Karate and dont realise that its very different to what was practised in Okinawa.
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Killer Miller
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 29 Nov 2002
Posts: 732
Location: California
Styles: JKA Shotokan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice article.

When I tell someone that I do/did traditional karate, I don't really think of it in the physical sense of the word. You are right in the sense that you can't say that physical attributes are necessarily traditional. Traditional karate is a training concept, an art, and most importantly a "way of life." Traditional karate is not really taught as a sport for trophies, belts, fame or money. You are learning a new way of thinking, learning, training, etc., that has the training concepts and attributes of the art of traditionally taught karate. You never fully learn the art, because the art is always evolving and there are always new things to learn. So this means that the physical aspect of karate are not really that important as a whole.

As far as Kata, kata is historical in the sense that when martial arts was outlawed, kata was the form of training karate without getting arrested. It was trained in the form of a traditional dance. However, it contained all of the elements of normal karate training.

Lets compare this training concept with todays modern or "non-traditional" martial. One you have achieved your black belt, 52 trophies on your mantle, $$$ in prize money, etc., there is a tendancy to stop progessing or training. This would be considered non-traditional because it has not become your way of life, for the rest of your life, with the goal to always train and learn with the traditional concepts of the art.

So traditional karate is truly more than the word "traditional" or the difference of the physical attributes, it's truly the traditional art of karate - or whatever traditional art you train...

- Killer -
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Sensei Rick
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 310
Location: Phoenix, Az.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a truly great article, thank you for it. I would be interested in knowing your favorite kata.
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Shorin Ryuu
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1862
Location: Pearl City, HI
Styles: Shorin Ryu, Ryukyu Kobudo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I didn't even know this article was still being responded to.

My favorite kata? Hmm...I like so many of them, it is always hard to say. My first response is usually the Passai or Naihanchi kata. Although I have been known to enjoy mangling Hakutsuru.
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Patrick
KF Administrator

Joined: 01 May 2001
Posts: 27039
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally, articles we publish are somewhat "timeless", so you can expect that a reply can come at any time.
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Shrekka
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 39

Styles: Karate

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shorin Ryuu - Nice article, some interesting concepts in there, and most of them I agree with.

What is your definition of traditional Kata? What do you think about some of the Kata that is being thrown around nowadays?

And lastly, what is your Kata syllabus?
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shogeri
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 663

Styles: Instructor in Internal, External, Mixed Styles

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, it was a great article!

Thanks!


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atalaya
Yellow Belt
Yellow Belt

Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 88
Location: USA-varies
Styles: kyokushin, goju-ryu, aikido

PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: BUNKAI or technical analysis is the key Reply with quote

adonis appears to have hit the nail on the head as far as making kata a personal training exercise versus simply mimicking what others show you. by having your peers stand in as "victim-teers" you can try each technique in a new way. share your ideas. write down what you find works and doesn't work. try holding knives or sticks in your hands while you perform different movements.
as an aside- i have enjoyed the discussion about what is "traditional." perhaps something to consider, however, is that the nature of language and words in specific is to convey meaning. if i say "traditional karate" and someone understands it to mean what i practice- i have succeeded in my attempts at being understood.
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Ryute23
White Belt
White Belt

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 14
Location: Plainfield, New Jersey
Styles: Ryute

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bravo, many popular maagazines and modern style martial artist should consider this. Just because one does not understand the meaning of a kata doesnt mean it is obsolete or people fight differently today than they did years ago.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27759
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Who put the "Traditional" in Traditional Karate? Reply with quote

That is a very good article. I am glad it was dug up. Now I can direct people from the "English vs. Japanese in training" thread to this one when they talk about losing traditions because the language isn't used.
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