Who Put the "Traditional" in Traditional Karate?

kangaroo · Yellow Belt

Good article. I think all too often we concentrate on what is "Traditional" in favour of what works.

INSKMITHADDICT · White Belt

First excuse my bad typing and formatting inshich it lays.
I am older then you, let me put it that way. The ten to fifteen year time gap between our ages and where we were taught makes a difference, times do change.
When I am referring to this I am looking back at what I had to go through back in the day. It was cold hearted disapline when I look back. Yes maybe it was from the wrong people. But however they still teach and with great success. Maybe since that time frame they have been able to harness this type of method and bring it under control. I still stuck it out and went on, eventually I had the opprotunities just like you to go overseas to Asia and learn with focus towards the art. I guess maybe overall this is why they are not with any organizations Like Tadashi Yamashita's dojo's by example Jeff Batemans Isshinken Academy Of Martial Arts. Looking at what he has done meaning Jeff it is quit impressive. What titles/trophies etc. do you have?( Just curious)
I am not saying that katas arent important and they do help you build self confidence etc. But I find it hard to believe that you would have been in enough fights outside a dojo to know that each move in a kata will directly stop each and everything that a person or persons will throw out at you as you never know what moves they are going to use towards you. I on the other hand live in a very rough neighborhood and people get robbed almost everyday here. I wouldnt use like I said every prescribed move from a kata, but however many from alot of katas mixed together.
You are good writer ad I appreciate your responces.

Shorin Ryuu · Black Belt

In that case, forgive my assumption... on the internet, how one types certainly gives an impression that may or may not be true. It definitely is biased against those who don't have to use a computer everyday on the job or who grew up with one.

As far as titles and trophies go, I have none and I don't desire any. Titles are easily invented or given and trophies are the result of sport competition. I don't feel sport karate or competitions are taboo... I just don't feel any desire to take part. However, I do respect the fighting mentality that is present in some individuals who take part in those competitions. Because they continually "put it on the line", they have a better fighting mentality than a lot of people in traditional karate that do not engage in these competitions.

I'll mention one last segment about this issue, since it's obvious that we will just respectfully agree to disagree.

What you learn from kata isn't a preprogrammed curriculum. I don't advocate the "If opponent does X, I will always do Y" approach. For one thing, that is a "reactive" approach to fighting. Putting that aside... the manner in which we execute techniques is designed to cover a wide variety of situations. As just one brief example, it is irrelevant if the opponent punches high, middle, or low as the block is directed at the upper arm/shoulder. But in the end, technique is technique. One of the biggest benefits of kata is learning how to move from technique to technique and what transpires in between. That is something you can't get from simple repetition drills. And finally, the simpler you keep your kata, the more realistic it becomes. This makes it much easier for your kata to become fighting applicable.

I recently submitted an article to this forum about the two main fighting mentalities that I've noticed over the years. I look forward to hearing your feedback when it comes out.
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INSKMITHADDICT · White Belt

Awe you finally said what I was looking for. In a manner of words yes mine look different as like you said who grew up with one-meaning computer. Let me put it this way think Commador vic20 or vic80.
But back to the subject at hand.
One of the biggest benefits of kata is learning how to move from technique to technique and what transpires in between. That is something you can't get from simple repetition drills. And finally, the simpler you keep your kata, the more realistic it becomes. This makes it much easier for your kata to become fighting applicable.

You have different wording of coarse but in a nutshell see it the same way I do vice versa. This is what I was trying to get at, how to apply each technique to technique.

I will say now that I do agree with you. I look forward to reading this up and coming article and others you have here.
Domo Arigato

poisendhearts · Yellow Belt

i know, it just used to be KARATE, not Shotokan, or Kenpo, or all other variations, it needs to just be KARATE!!!!!
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~josh

stejitsu · Yellow Belt

In my eyes traditional is how 'karate' used to be. The early style of karate- pre sport- was effective no nonsense solid defense. They knew the respect, and knew they possessed effective skills if the need be. I think some schools practice too much sport orientated practice, with little or no contact allowed. As i see the more instructors produced the more diluted the original karate is getting diluted. I do know however that some clubs have values and ideas to uphold true karate spirit and do not pride themselves on that all important counter 'tournament winning blow' or should i say virtually bordering on feeble punch that is no use outside of the dojo. Im not putting all fighting styles in this group as 'kyokushinkai karate' rates highly in my eyes and other off shoots and similar styles of this nature.

Kata now we all know that this is the bible of the karataka knowledge, but some instructors do not know the bunkai and endlessly practice these moves.

Karate is seen in circles of people as a sport which is not the way it should be seen, in some circles its seen as even a weak discipline that serves no place outside of the dojo. This saddens me and i worry for the future of martial arts.

In this world of litigation i understand why people are hesitant on more contact but its a martial art. Whilst applying for martial arts license, you should sign a contract that training carries a risk of contact. No law suits can be brought against association whilst practicing the systems sparring and self defense moves.
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Mr Sanchin · White Belt

Great article Shorin I agree with you 100%. I think that when you mentioned the developments and expanding by the Japanese was frowned upon by the Okinawans things have taken another step okinawa-japan and know Western 21st century commercial money orientated Karate that offers little more than a workout.
Large classes with easy Karate are big money earners ,Tournaments are also big money earners.
Have we missed something or has Martial Arts just under gone evolution.

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