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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
Black Belt

Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2374


PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had a conversation just a few days ago with a BJJ friend.

He explained to me that many people show up and only end up taking the one class.

The reason for the one class wonders is because the people showing up are trying to hard to compete, ego takes over and they are discouraged and humiliated due to being beaten, never wanting to show up for a second class.

None martial artist that have fighting experience are not sure how to behave or conduct themselves in a dojo environment. It is if they have something to prove by being over aggressive or unrealistically over confident, putting themselves in an unexpected predicament. Perhaps these people that end up in a challenge match isn't really what they want, perhaps they are just trying to see if they have some skill in the area.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slapping is not practiced in jiu jitsu- anywhere!

You are looking at challenge matches, not training videos.

Most people don't come back to jiu jitsu because frankly its tough. Most people don't like tough.
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Alan Armstrong
Black Belt
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2374


PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

personally I don't agree with the tough way of learning martial arts, my preference is good tried and proven techniques with repetitive practice; not necessarily with fully resistant partners or opponents.

The toughness is developed from the inside out and not imposed from the outside in IMHO.

Jujitsu practice weeds out people like myself for Spartan warrior types HOOO ! HOOO! HOOO!

I'm not wanting to dine in hell tonight.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
personally I don't agree with the tough way of learning martial arts, my preference is good tried and proven techniques with repetitive practice; not necessarily with fully resistant partners or opponents.

The toughness is developed from the inside out and not imposed from the outside in IMHO.

Jujitsu practice weeds out people like myself for Spartan warrior types HOOO ! HOOO! HOOO!

I'm not wanting to dine in hell tonight.


You're getting this impression that jiu jitsu guys are (as you put it) a bunch of rogues with testosterone fueled muscles with tapout shirts and attitude- basically you make it sound like its a bad episode of Jersey shore.

This isn't the case at all Alan. Everyone that you train with his his or her equal at a jiu jitsu gym. Lets be practical- if we ran this like fight club and only the toughest survived.... we wouldn't have a profitable business in the least.

Resistance is always encouraged but never forced. Its also not a "yes or no" type question but more a matter of degree- HOW MUCH resistance is there? So there are plenty of people who train jiu jitsu with limited resistance compared to the others in the gym. Once again though nothing comes for free so you can expect to learn the style quite well, but will never be on par with the guy that's a pro fighter because of the effort he put in.
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Alan Armstrong
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Joined: 28 Feb 2016
Posts: 2374


PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If for instance two people are "grappling" and one has another in a position that is impossible to get out of, it's done!

To start slapping the opponent's head or face (waiting for a tap out) in to submission is pointless, point if fact, because they want a rematch and perhaps another...

Some people don't know or understand when they have lost or have and beaten, as they are full of emotion void of any reasoning.
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TJ-Jitsu
Blue Belt
Blue Belt

Joined: 30 Sep 2014
Posts: 316
Location: PA
Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
If for instance two people are "grappling" and one has another in a position that is impossible to get out of, it's done!

To start slapping the opponent's head or face (waiting for a tap out) in to submission is pointless, point if fact, because they want a rematch and perhaps another...

Some people don't know or understand when they have lost or have and beaten, as they are full of emotion void of any reasoning.


This doesn't happen during a jiu jitsu class. You train grappling and look for the submission only. The slaps you speak of are used when someone wants to fight- that is a no holds barred challenge match.
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bushido_man96
KF Sensei
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 27847
Location: Hays, KS
Styles: Taekwondo, Combat Hapkido, Aikido, GRACIE

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
Alan Armstrong wrote:
If for instance two people are "grappling" and one has another in a position that is impossible to get out of, it's done!

To start slapping the opponent's head or face (waiting for a tap out) in to submission is pointless, point if fact, because they want a rematch and perhaps another...

Some people don't know or understand when they have lost or have and beaten, as they are full of emotion void of any reasoning.


This doesn't happen during a jiu jitsu class. You train grappling and look for the submission only. The slaps you speak of are used when someone wants to fight- that is a no holds barred challenge match.
And the slaps are merely a way of saying, "I could be beating the tar out of you right now, but instead, I'm only slapping you, proving my point."

I see what TJ is saying about BJJ being tough. Its not tough in that you have to be a tough individual to do it. In fact, if you are working with a good BJJ player, you likely aren't going to get hurt all that much, as long as you know when to tap (the ego comes into play here). The ones who don't show up for the second class are the ones who really have more of a problem with their lack of mental toughness. I've seen this a bunch in Wrestling, too. Athletic kids who are good at other sports come out to try Wrestling, and when they find how tough it is, some of them get discouraged and give it up. I can see this come into play in BJJ as well.
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14496
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what I think about slapping?? It's a tool, but ONLY if it's allowed!!

To me, slapping is akin to a feint...akin to a distraction...akin to an emotional twist...and sure, a practitioner who's more experienced don't need to resort to slapping, but if it's not against any rule, than why not?! If there's no rule prohibiting slapping, than I say, slap away. If one doesn't want to be slapped, then do something about it.

While the slap can be viewed as a barbaric tactic, and not a MA tactic, Shindokan teaches it, and I've used it in and out of the dojo. Not because I've no honor, but because it gets the reaction that I'm hoping for...anger. Anger gets in the way of a clear mind!!

Use any, and every tool at your disposal, even in the dojo, but only if it's permissive by the CI!! If it's not allowed, I'm fine with that as well, I've more than one trick up my sleeve, but no rabbit, and I understand why it wouldn't be allowed...skill first, tactics second!!

Slapping, for me comes quite natural, and I'll use it as quickly as I would use a punch or whatever. Work the ground with me, and if the slap is allowed, be prepared, I'll slap the tar out of someone.

I've no shame in my...ahem...slapping game!!



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LLLEARNER
Brown Belt
Brown Belt

Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 687
Location: Central Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensei8 wrote:
You know what I think about slapping?? It's a tool, but ONLY if it's allowed!!

To me, slapping is akin to a feint...akin to a distraction...akin to an emotional twist...and sure, a practitioner who's more experienced don't need to resort to slapping, but if it's not against any rule, than why not?! If there's no rule prohibiting slapping, than I say, slap away. If one doesn't want to be slapped, then do something about it.

While the slap can be viewed as a barbaric tactic, and not a MA tactic, Shindokan teaches it, and I've used it in and out of the dojo. Not because I've no honor, but because it gets the reaction that I'm hoping for...anger. Anger gets in the way of a clear mind!!

Use any, and every tool at your disposal, even in the dojo, but only if it's permissive by the CI!! If it's not allowed, I'm fine with that as well, I've more than one trick up my sleeve, but no rabbit, and I understand why it wouldn't be allowed...skill first, tactics second!!

Slapping, for me comes quite natural, and I'll use it as quickly as I would use a punch or whatever. Work the ground with me, and if the slap is allowed, be prepared, I'll slap the tar out of someone.

I've no shame in my...ahem...slapping game!!




How big are your sleeves? That way I can guess how many tricks you have up them.
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"Walk a single path, becoming neither cocky with victory nor broken with defeat, without forgetting caution when all is quiet or becoming frightened when danger threatens." ~ Jigaro Kano
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sensei8
KF Sensei
KF Sensei

Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 14496
Location: Houston, TX
Styles: Shindokan Saitou-ryu [Shuri-te/Okinawa-te based]

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LLLEARNER wrote:
sensei8 wrote:
You know what I think about slapping?? It's a tool, but ONLY if it's allowed!!

To me, slapping is akin to a feint...akin to a distraction...akin to an emotional twist...and sure, a practitioner who's more experienced don't need to resort to slapping, but if it's not against any rule, than why not?! If there's no rule prohibiting slapping, than I say, slap away. If one doesn't want to be slapped, then do something about it.

While the slap can be viewed as a barbaric tactic, and not a MA tactic, Shindokan teaches it, and I've used it in and out of the dojo. Not because I've no honor, but because it gets the reaction that I'm hoping for...anger. Anger gets in the way of a clear mind!!

Use any, and every tool at your disposal, even in the dojo, but only if it's permissive by the CI!! If it's not allowed, I'm fine with that as well, I've more than one trick up my sleeve, but no rabbit, and I understand why it wouldn't be allowed...skill first, tactics second!!

Slapping, for me comes quite natural, and I'll use it as quickly as I would use a punch or whatever. Work the ground with me, and if the slap is allowed, be prepared, I'll slap the tar out of someone.

I've no shame in my...ahem...slapping game!!




How big are your sleeves? That way I can guess how many tricks you have up them.

Rofl...just regular sleeves.


ROFL ROFL
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