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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Why Slapping is allowed in Jujitsu? Reply with quote

Why is slapping allowed in jujitsu?

Isn't it enough to be in an obviouse dominant position that the opponent has lost and is ultimately helpless in, without the need for slapping, adding more insult to injury?
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What jiu jitsu are you speaking of?
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LLLEARNER
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it serves the same purpose as punching your opponent while down in the UFC. Your goal is to get a tap or KO. It seems to serve as a distraction/wearing your opponent down for a submission hold, like a choke or triangle. It appears less harmful than punching as well.

I am just guessing. I am sure wiser members can provide a more solid answer.
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tallgeese
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan, I think you're probably thinking of some of the fights you're seen online. In some instances you'll see jits guys use open hand slaps to get people to move to a certain position. Like this video that saw a lot of clicks this year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qxHARgZFgo

Slaps are a good way to get people to give up move vulnerable positions without striking them with a closed fist. This can be either in actual fights or training. It goes all the way back to the early days when Rickson and the rest of the Gracies hosted any challengers like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b9v1slvjFo

(about the 50 sec mark)

It's not an "official" part of the curriculum but it's kind of a historical throw back to the origins proving the art.
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bushido_man96
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Gracies did it to prove their point. They got into a better position, gained control, and then proved they had the control.

I got to see Royce Gracie do this in person at one of the training sessions I had with him. It was rather fun to watch.
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TJ-Jitsu
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you guys are talking about that, then yes the reason why we smack them in the fact is because its a fight!

Heres the deal- people want to come in and challenge jiu jitsu. So its a fight, and this guy is going to cave your skull in if given the right opportunity. You get a dominant position on him, and you begin to slap him. The demonstrates that you could seriously hurt him without having to do so. It also adds a little embarassment (thats the idea...).

You can smack the hell out of someone without really hurting them like you would throwing punches or elbows- and really make your point. The problem is many people on the recieving end forget that its a fight and often ask for a second and even third match. Its those second and third fights where you need to remind them they're in a fight- and those slaps turn to punches and elbows....
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TJ-Jitsu wrote:
If you guys are talking about that, then yes the reason why we smack them in the fact is because its a fight!

Heres the deal- people want to come in and challenge jiu jitsu. So its a fight, and this guy is going to cave your skull in if given the right opportunity. You get a dominant position on him, and you begin to slap him. The demonstrates that you could seriously hurt him without having to do so. It also adds a little embarassment (thats the idea...).

You can smack the hell out of someone without really hurting them like you would throwing punches or elbows- and really make your point. The problem is many people on the recieving end forget that its a fight and often ask for a second and even third match. Its those second and third fights where you need to remind them they're in a fight- and those slaps turn to punches and elbows....
Isn't the point of BJJ is to get a submission with a joint lock or choke hold?

The embarrassment should be with the person doing the slapping and not the one being slapped!

This practice of mounting another person and slapping them from a spectators point of view looks like physical abuse and not looking anything resembling a martial art technique.
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TJ-Jitsu
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Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
TJ-Jitsu wrote:
If you guys are talking about that, then yes the reason why we smack them in the fact is because its a fight!

Heres the deal- people want to come in and challenge jiu jitsu. So its a fight, and this guy is going to cave your skull in if given the right opportunity. You get a dominant position on him, and you begin to slap him. The demonstrates that you could seriously hurt him without having to do so. It also adds a little embarassment (thats the idea...).

You can smack the hell out of someone without really hurting them like you would throwing punches or elbows- and really make your point. The problem is many people on the recieving end forget that its a fight and often ask for a second and even third match. Its those second and third fights where you need to remind them they're in a fight- and those slaps turn to punches and elbows....
Isn't the point of BJJ is to get a submission with a joint lock or choke hold?

The embarrassment should be with the person doing the slapping and not the one being slapped!

This practice of mounting another person and slapping them from a spectators point of view looks like physical abuse and not looking anything resembling a martial art technique.


It's a fight Alan.... what grounds do you feel I should be nice given that the other person is trying to cave my face in? I use "me" to reference joe jiu jitsu fighter...
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Alan Armstrong
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are a superior fighter then slapping the opponent to submission isn't necessary.

Just tell the opponent that "Continuing isn't an option for you, so please tap out"

Constraining the opponent is sufficient enough with Chinese styles; without adding any insult to injury.

Slapping my martial art brother or sister isn't gaining any respect from the opponent neither is it showing any type of consideration.

Going beyond what is necessary when the bout has already been won is lacking benevolence and crosses the line in to cruelty and egotistical sadism.

Winning a bout is the time to be able to recruit that person in to your realm of expertise and not the time for punishment and unnecessary humiliation.

Who wants to join a group that prefers punishment over enlightenment?

Troops that were captured and tortured in the last century during war didn't hate their captors, they did however have pity for them due to the lack of humility and consideration for fellow humans.

Kindness is always surprising no matter the circumstances.
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TJ-Jitsu
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Styles: Gracie Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan Armstrong wrote:
If you are a superior fighter then slapping the opponent to submission isn't necessary.

Just tell the opponent that "Continuing isn't an option for you, so please tap out"

Constraining the opponent is sufficient enough with Chinese styles; without adding any insult to injury.

Slapping my martial art brother or sister isn't gaining any respect from the opponent neither is it showing any type of consideration.

Going beyond what is necessary when the bout has already been won is lacking benevolence and crosses the line in to cruelty and egotistical sadism.

Winning a bout is the time to be able to recruit that person in to your realm of expertise and not the time for punishment and unnecessary humiliation.

Who wants to join a group that prefers punishment over enlightenment?

Troops that were captured and tortured in the last century during war didn't hate their captors, they did however have pity for them due to the lack of humility and consideration for fellow humans.

Kindness is always surprising no matter the circumstances.


All of this is explained beforehand. This isn't sparring its a fight. You need to understand the people that are asking for these matches. These are the guys that are all "you cant take me to the ground" and "that stuff doesn't work on me" so we decide to have a fight.

Now here are the rules for a challenge match- the challenger can do whatever he wants, we merely ask that you don't bite for the sake of diseases. You CAN bite, but it'll quickly become the last time you're able to do that. Now the rules for the jiu jitsu fighter- hes not allowed to strike with a closed fist but hes going to take you down. After he does hes going to get to the mount. Hes not going to punch you with a fist, but rather hes going to slap you to demonstrate just how much control he has over you. Then he'll choke you.

You'll want to "try again" (they always do...) but they also fail to realize that if this were an actual fight you would not have that option. So what you're asking me to do is to not only not hurt you, but also not embarrass you at the same time. Meanwhile there is no doubt that you're trying your hardest to injure and cripple me the moment you get a chance. The fact that I'm slapping you instead of punching you is about as merciful and compassionate as one can get. The first match is usually a few slaps to get you to turn your back. The second match the slaps are much harder and more frequent. If you insist on a third match, there are no more slaps (or submissions for that matter) and its punches and elbows at this point.

A few things to consider- this is still much more humane than any striking style is going to be (considering they'll hit you to the point of unconsciousness with blunt force trauma.)

No other martial art ever allowed someone to walk into their school, challenge them, and have the potential to walk out unharmed. This is a FIGHT and I'm able to have enough control so as to only hurt your ego and not your body. What other martial art can offer that?

When looking at these videos, you're often not seeing what led up to the match and the banter of the challenger.

You speak of Chinese styles and other martial arts, so allow me to call you out on that one- show me a video of a challenge match with a style other than jiu jitsu or modern day mma- a full contact no holds barred match at that and show me the "humanity" demonstrated by the challenged. Lets assume you can find a match, you'll notice that the challenger will be beaten so profusely that an immediate rematch is not possible. You're going to leave the jiu jitsu school with injuries only to your ego (unless you persist).

In regards to martial arts and the "code of conduct" you speak of you also need to understand that not everyone is interested in that. I don't train martial arts to become a better person or improve my spirituality, I train because I like to fight. Martial arts are supposed to teach people how to fight. I take great offense to people who claim to be able to do it while simultaneously being unable to do it.

The whole situation could have easily been avoided if the challenger merely took a couple of classes....
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